Topic: Valhalla...debate

[blessu]

I am throwing this in simply out of interest and for debate. I have recently got back into game play for pure enjoyment and fun. This site is great and I have found myself taking an interest in other aspects of the descent world, the community the knowledge, the music, the people. It is international and in the game rooms and forums we are all from one world with a common interest. Not many groups can say that.

My initial search led me to this site, however I also located dateiliste (thomas) and Valhalla (ryujin). Obviously these people have a great depth of knowldege and ability so in that sense I take my hat off to them. I have no vested interest other than wanting to play a bit enjoy the forums and hopefully develope my knowledge and skills. I have used the thomas installer and so far am very happy with the set up. Who finances this? 

It would appear that Valhalla is closing down (which seems sad) due to lack of funds although I did make a small contribution to try and support it a bit. Although I do not use it as such I felt that it was no skin off my nose to help a little (descent has given me such pleasure over the years.

Can we should we help? Does it matter if we lose Valhalla? Who runs vortex? Are there other descent platforms to play and connect through? Could descent go into free fall again after all the hard work from so many minds? How do we finance any of this? I do not know, perhaps those of you with knowledge and opinions could debate this and perhaps we will all be enlightened.

It is a great community and I know many of you comunicate with each other over various issues. The interest is vast although many seem to have lost interest in playing descent anymore...personal choice I accept that but wasnt descent founded out of the game rooms and interlinking of minds.

Any thoughts please, in consideratioin that most of you are well up to speed on all of this, newcomers and especially young newcomers may be interested. 

[-<WillyP>-]

I can't speak for others but I will say this site is funded purely out of my own pocket. There is the Planet Descent Zazzle store on the front page which has netted less than $20 so far. (they won't send a check until it reaches $25, so I haven't received anything from that yet) I don't like to ask for donations, and there is not enough traffic to get advertising. However, if someone wanted to donate, it could be arranged.

While I can't say for sure, I am pretty sure Thomas pays the costs for his site himself, and I assume the same goes for any other sites. Though some ask for donations, I would be willing to bet none even recoup the cost of hosting and domain registration, let alone the hours put in to create and maintain a site.

[Crash]

Why don't you contact Parallax/Outrage or whichever company still has a connection to the game(s) and say "I know times are tight but could we please have some corporate sponsorship in order to keep this server going. Because without that server, we can't play your game."

I mean, you're already advertising the Descent titles for sale on the Valhalla site. I would think they'd probably be happy to help you out, even if it were only for 12 months or something.

You might be pleasantly surprised because Descent is a product of theirs, for which there is no replacement.
What I do know is that if you don't ask, you definitely won't get.

[VANGUARD]

Like he said; in a nutshell, it's worth trying.

Too bad about PXO. Descent 3 was a lot of fun online. I say "was" because a; I am just too busy for that, and b, I doubt it's has big as it was years back.

[Matthew]

As far as I know, nobody really "runs" vortex. The only thing needs running is a site to download it from. Gamespy does the tracking servers.

[-<WillyP>-]

Vortex doesn't need someone to 'run' it the same way this site needs someone to run it, but there is still maintenance of the site, hosting to pay for, and updates to the code. Not to mention customer service, even though the software is offered free, there is still a need for support. IIRC Vortex is run by Skorpian.

[Matthew]

I disagree on all of those points. The code works as is and does not need updating. The community can provide customer support (face it, nobody is going to find vortex without having been recommended it by a community forum, they can get help there), and there are enough community sites that I'm sure somebody could host a mirror of it. Heck if it really did come down to that, I would host it. The only potential problem I see is that the vortex update checker would break, and take forever to start vortex.

[-<WillyP>-]

That would still be someone running it, just a different person(s). Whether it is you or Checkor hosting the site, or Skorpian or the community answering questions, or someone deciding not to make changes to the code, someone still has to do it.

The point is not that there is a great cost or many hours spent, but that any endeavor, large or small, has to be run by someone, whether that someone is an individual, a committee, or a community, if no one does it, it will cease to exist sooner or later. Like K-Query, remember that, it was before Vortex.

And, all code needs to be updated sometimes, as OS's change, people request features, or vulnerabilities are found.

[Matthew]

I can't see microsoft making any breaking changes to windows that could break vortex (or any program). Seeing as programs that ran on windows 95 will still run on windows 7. Code doesn't need to be updated for people requesting new features. As for vulnerabilities... Who is going to spend time looking for vulnerabilities in a program used by a collective of about 20 people?

Either way, code is the only real obstacle to vortex. If checkor suddenly shuts down his site without making vortex open source (on other sites, obviously), that would be a problem.

[DarkWing]

I can't see microsoft making any breaking changes to windows that could break vortex (or any program). ...

{Shnerk!} Microsoft not make any breaking changes to Windows? ...  IMO that might actually be a first if it should happen.

[Matthew]

Which is exactly why programs made 10 years ago still run, right? Because microsoft makes breaking changes? IIRC the only thing wrong with Descent 1 and 2 running without DXX was the clock being out of sync and joystick problems.

[-<WillyP>-]

Oh, is that all? Go ahead and play like that then.

[Kaiaatzl]

I can't actually run the original programs without using dosbox or the sourceports.
They crash on startup.

[Scyphi]

I can't see microsoft making any breaking changes to windows that could break vortex (or any program)...

I didn't think you were that narrowminded IHateHackers. Even I know better than to think like that.

[Matthew]

Oh, is that all? Go ahead and play like that then.

Considering vortex has neither use for a clock (and I mean a clock in terms of the computer, not a time of day lock) nor a joystick... Also, Descent was written for DOS which wasn't even Windows at all.