Topic: What does Crystalline fructose do to you?

[Matthew]

I'd rather pay for this than pay for social security, honestly. At least I see something come back to me for this. Social security all I see is people who either didn't plan properly being given money so they don't feel the consequences from their poor planning, or people who did plan properly getting extra money just for fun. And then, maybe if it hasn't been shut down by the time I hit old age, I'll get it all back. Why not just let me keep it to begin with? The only people who ever benefited from social security were the people who were already old enough to receive benefits at the time, who never paid a dime out of their paychecks for it.

And yet, everyone cries day in and day out about "Obamacare", but when you suggest taking away social security they all cry that we need it.

[VANGUARD]

Obamacare hurts a lot of small businesses, and a lot of doctors are not happy with this

[Alieo]

Don't even get me started on SS! Might as well throw your money down the toilet. No... there's a chance you can fish it out at the treatment plant... might as well BURN your money.

[Scyphi]

This is part of the reason why I've been mostly indifferent towards Obamacare. It obviously is not perfect and not without potentially troubling flaws, but there are aspects of it where it improves upon our previous systems. So as I see it, it's potentially a step in the right direction, so I'm willing to try it. If problems come up, then go and fix them.

At least, that's how it SHOULD work.

[-<WillyP>-]

so... What improves?

[Scyphi]

Well...I try to have faith that it at least improves something, let's put it that way.

[Kaiaatzl]

It improves the ability of less fortunate people to afford to pay for their own health care, which in turn improves their ability to get back into the workforce and contribute to the world.  It's had a rocky start but that's not entirely Obama's fault...
I won't deny that it does cause some problems down in the States.  But honestly your health care system as it works now, sucks, and "Obamacare" is as good a step as any to start improving it.  It isn't anywhere near a final solution but I honestly think it's a step in the right direction.  It's only one step on a long journey, but every journey starts with a single step.

[VANGUARD]

I'm not mad at all. just writing this in bold, because I feel this has not been discussed. and is sort of a  red flag,

Why are we being penalized if we don't accept?

Sorry if it's been discussed and I failed to see an answer that explains it.

[Scyphi]

It improves the ability of less fortunate people to afford to pay for their own health care, which in turn improves their ability to get back into the workforce and contribute to the world.  It's had a rocky start but that's not entirely Obama's fault...
I won't deny that it does cause some problems down in the States.  But honestly your health care system as it works now, sucks, and "Obamacare" is as good a step as any to start improving it.  It isn't anywhere near a final solution but I honestly think it's a step in the right direction.  It's only one step on a long journey, but every journey starts with a single step.

Exactly! That's my view on it. 

My only fear is that the stupid government will, instead of progressing forward, stall out, or worse still, start backpedaling.

[Kaiaatzl]

Why are we being penalized if we don't accept?

I can be completely wrong, especially not being from your country, but the impression I get is that the Republican party isn't letting your government have any other way to pay for it.  As for my impression of why they're doing that...

[Matthew]

It improves the ability of less fortunate people to afford to pay for their own health care, which in turn improves their ability to get back into the workforce and contribute to the world.  It's had a rocky start but that's not entirely Obama's fault...
I won't deny that it does cause some problems down in the States.  But honestly your health care system as it works now, sucks, and "Obamacare" is as good a step as any to start improving it.  It isn't anywhere near a final solution but I honestly think it's a step in the right direction.  It's only one step on a long journey, but every journey starts with a single step.

Exactly! That's my view on it. 

My only fear is that the stupid government will, instead of progressing forward, stall out, or worse still, start backpedaling.

Of course they will. The republicans have put too much of their publicity around stopping "Obamacare" to not repeal it first chance they get. If they don't, their staunchest supporters will be angry with them for not following through and their middle-road supporters will see that they're just spraying and praying, hoping to hit the target that will garner the most support.

[-<WillyP>-]

Pretty much everything said since my last post is wrong.

Poor people in this country were not denied healthcare under the old plan, and the ACA (Obamacare) does not help them 'pay for it themselves'. It will, however, take money from some to pay for others. Just like the old system, those who do pay, pay more to cover the cost of treat those who cannot, or will not. The ACA does however add a massive administration overload, and redistributes wealth on an unprecedented scale.

To say our old healthcare system sucks, is plain wrong, and pointless to this discussion. Medical care in the USA is the best in the world.

Everything big government does that the private sector can do, government does less efficiently, less honestly, and is eventually turned political. You are right the ACA is a step down a journey, the road we are traveling down is one that leads to single-payer. The ACA cannot succeed, which is why Republicans are fighting it.

Why are we being penalized if we don't accept?

I can be completely wrong, especially not being from your country, but the impression I get is that the Republican party isn't letting your government have any other way to pay for it.  As for my impression of why they're doing that...

Your impression is wrong. The penalty won't come close to paying for the costs, there many new taxes that are being phased in to do that. However, the bulk of the payment is expected to come from young healthy workers, people who will see their insurance premiums jump tenfold but who rarely use healthcare. These people are being counted on to sign up in droves... see a problem here?

Republicans have nothing to do with that. Republicans did attempt to withhold funding from the ACA temporarily, by passing a budget that did not include funds for the ACA. However the Democrats refused to even talk about the budget, which is why the govt partially shutdown. (and... don't get me started on that  )

The ACA was passed over strenuous objections from the Republicans, not one single Republican voted in favor of it. The Democrats passed it through by taking an unrelated bill that was passed through the House, a Democrat only group removed the entire contents of the bill,  and inserted the contents of the ACA, and Democrat leaders rammed it through the without even reading it. Nancy Pelosi said, "you have to pass it to find out what's in it". Does this sound like a bill that had widespread bi-partisan support?

Why do you think congress chose to exempt them selves and their staff from this train wreck?

[Kaiaatzl]

I would like to know how, under your current system, somebody who can't afford insurance or their own health care, who has, say, deadly cancer, or deadly poisoning, or deadly something else, can get treatment so that they don't die.  Does your system even have an answer to that within the system?
But you're not going to answer that question.  And if you do I won't be listening.  Because you insulted me directly, and I'm leaving.

If you want to tell somebody that a single-player health care system can't work, try telling it to somebody who doesn't live in a country where it does work and has personal experience to attest to that.   You're insulting my intelligence and I'm not going to put up with that.

I don't want to be part of this and I didn't mean to get involved in the first place.   This debate isn't going to change anything that will or won't happen.  It won't even change anybody's point of view.  All it will do is create bad blood in a community that's supposed to be a little bit famous for the opposite.  I hope somebody sends me a PM or an email when it's over, because I'm leaving until that happens.

[VANGUARD]

Some people find this an invasion. We are being penalized if we don't sign up for Obamacare. At least that's what it sounded like in the letter that I got from my temp agency. That, and the fine will be higher each year.

Some think it's great to be socialist, and to help out everyone, and to pay some way to make sure everyone has health care.

In a sense, I can agree with both side. We should have more say in our money, yet it's nice to help out others. This is sort of a moral argument. I could get more into this, but this political talk is not really me. Plus, I have a hard time "typing" certain topics. It'd be easier to "say" it.

[Pumo]

I won't like to get into the debate (I don't like to discuss this kind of stuff on forums, TBH), and I'm not supporting any specific side.

I just would like to note, as a side topic and without entering in too much detail, that even with its several faults, Mexican health care system is a bit better in some ways that the USA system, and I say this from my own experience as a low income ex-patient of Cancer.
I'm in remission since some years already and the treatment and service was pretty good, near to excelent, at least in the hospital and system I got (At the 'Instituto Nacional de Cancerología'), and VERY, VERY cheap, all according nicely to my social-economic level and with not much of a hassle, even being bureaucratic as it is.

I would also like to note that Mexico already achieved (although very recently) Universal Healthcare system.

As much as Mexican government sucks (And believe me, it really sucks very, very badly in many aspects), the health care system is one of the few things that deserves to be highlighted.

Some read about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Mexico

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All this I said was said just as some wood for thought...