Planet Descent
Technical => Technical => Topic started by: Kaizerwolf on July 27, 2010, 04:31:41 PM
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Hey all. I have to explain this first before my question will make sense, so bear with this next bit of text.
Descent 3 had been installed on an older machine, running Windows XP Service Pack 2. The hard ware was not very advanced, and Descent 3 ran wonderfully.
Just this past April, i received a new computer from my brother. All the way up to Windows 7 64 Bit, top of the line and up to date hardware, all the works. I had simply transferred Descent 3 from the old WinXP hard drive to the new Win7 hard drive. It still ran alright, but there were some noticeable oddities. They weren't game breaking, and didn't happen all that often. However, the game was never really installed in the Win7 machine, merely transferred over.
So, to alleviate such a problem, I figured, "Hell, why not reinstall the game. It might fix those issues." Turns out I was wrong. It made them worse, and, in fact, added new issues.
To start;
-I cannot load any levels. It gets around halfway through the second red loading bar, then the screen goes black and the mouse appears. If I hit "Escape", i go back to the desktop.
-The screen is somehow brighter after hitting Escape from the first bullet. Simply logging off and back on to my Win7 account takes care of the brightness. Now, I have to use the Task Manager to close 'MAIN.EXE' when this black screen appears. Using the Task Manager to end the program does not cause the brighter screen.
-Resolution is messy. When I get that black screen and hit Escape, or even when just quitting from the game, the screen resolution stays at what Descent 3 is set to; 640x480. This is very annoying, and is fixed by logging off and on. Again, using the Task Manager does not cause this resolution error.
I talked to InsanityBringer for a bit about this, and we tried to set the compatibility of MAIN.exe to Windows XP, but this did not work. I have no idea what to do, now. It's really very frustrating...
If anyone can help, I would literally love you forever. I can provide system information if needed. At the moment, I can tell you that I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit. The graphics card is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260.
-Kw
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I'm not sure, but did you burn the descent discs and then installed from them? Or does that not matter...
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Descent 3 is old enough to not run on Windows 7 anymore - at least not out of the box without spending a lot of time on it.
First thing to do is turn that stupid compatibility mode off again. Note that uninstalling the game or deleting all files will not turn it off. If you re-install later, you'll have it back, together with all the trouble.
Descent 3 doesn't work properly if it's just been copied over from one computer to another one - never has. At least Mercenary doesn't. You get several different errors in that case (some bot.oof missing and could not load mercx).
You pretty much got two options:
- Play with permissions and re-install the game without compatibility mode. Spend at least two days on it, most likely more. If you've installed a GOG version, that'll make it worse. You need to remove the compatibility mode in the HKLM registry hive manually.
- Go to http://www.dateiliste.com/en/descent-3/26-descent-3-installation-updates-and-modifications/120-download-the-full-version-of-descent-3.html and download that thing in two hours, install it in another 15 minutes. Copy your pilot file in after that and you're done.
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I forgot to mention that if you re-installed Mercenary already, you have to do some more work.
Remove (or better, rename) your current D3 folder to preserve what you may still need. Then run a registry cleaner (there's a free one called Eusing Reg Cleaner or similar; don't fall for any spamware trick when acquiring a registry cleaner) to remove all invalid D3 entries. Clean your startmenu manually (delete everything that has the name Descent 3).
Mercenary creates its startmenu entries for the current user (which is a bug) while Descent 3 creates them for all users.
Honestly, it's almost a crime to install Descent 3 and Mercenary from the original CDs. ;)
Never do it again. ;)
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It was a Dual Jewel case, bought it from Amazon. Mercenary was included. Thomas, I appreciate the help, but I really have no idea what you want me to do. This is all very confusing to me. :-[ :'(
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The resolution and screen brightness problems are nothing new, does that to me every time it crashes. D3 isn't the most well-coded software to begin with, even worse when running Vista/7. I got my copy working on Vista, but I can't for the life of me tell you how, sorry :/
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Kaiz,
Ok, step by step. :)
The Dual Jewel Case contains D3 and Merc. Because you have installed or attempted to install this on Windows 7 64 Bit already, you got quite a mess on your computer now.
Since it suggested to install to "C:\Games\Descent3", simply locate this directory and rename that folder to "C\Games_\Descemt3" or anything else you can think of. Just make sure you rename that folder. If the system doesn't allow you to rename it, open the task manager and find all "Main.exe" processes and kill them. Then try to rename that folder again.
Then download and install a registry cleaner. I'd suggest that one here: http://www.eusing.com/Download.htm, but any other one that doesn't contain spyware would do as well. ;)
Run it to clean your registry. It'll remove the important Descent 3 registry entries. Make sure you tell it to clean it properly by running it again a second time.
Then go to your startmenu folder (usually by right-clicking on the start button) and remove all Descent 3 related files and folders. This will get rid of any Descent 3 startmenu entries. You can check this by using the startmenu. If there are still entries/folders left somewhere, delelte them.
The registry cleaner usually takes care of the compatibility mode too, because it can't find the software anymore (you renamed its folder, right?). It'll remove the entries automatically.
Go to Dateiliste to get Descent 3. Don't install this Descent 3 into the same directory than the Descent 3 you already have installed but renamed. This shouldn't be an issue anyway, normally. The version from Dateiliste suggests a different installation folder anyway.
Copy your pilot file (.plt) from your old Descent 3 installation over to the new one (by default C:\Program files\Descent3).
Run Descent 3 and go through the configuration steps (video, sound).
If you get a weird looking output in Descent 3, use the command line switch -nomultitexture. That fixes it in 90 percent of the cases.
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The resolution and screen brightness problems are nothing new, does that to me every time it crashes.
http://www.dateiliste.com/en/descent-3/6-descent-3-files-section/44-restdisp-restore-display-after-the-game-crashed.html
That's not so new.
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Okay, I'm waiting on that Dateiliste website to give me a response. I used the registry cleaner and removed all entries of Descent 3 from my start menu. The Descent 3 folder has been renamed to "Descemte 3". All i have to do is wait now?
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Wouldn't just running the uninstaller work just as well as using a registry cleaner?
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Wouldn't just running the uninstaller work just as well as using a registry cleaner?
I'm not sure about the Dual Jewel version, but it doesn't work for the normal CDs I have.
One reason is that the uninstallers don't know anything about the compatibility mode. The one from Dateiliste doesn't either, by the way (but it doesn't know about it on purpose).
Another thing is that the compatibility entries could be in HKLM as well as in HKCU, depending on whether he ran it elevated or not.
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I guess I'm not quite sure what windows compatibility mode has to do with uninstalling D3.
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The compatibility mode is a pointer in the registry. It points to the executable file for which it has been turned on. Uninstalling the software does not remove that pointer. As soon as you re-install you get your compatibility settings back.
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Thomas, I quite honestly love you now. Thanks a bunch for helping me out, it works like a charm again. :)
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+1 for Thomas!
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The compatibility mode is a pointer in the registry. It points to the executable file for which it has been turned on. Uninstalling the software does not remove that pointer. As soon as you re-install you get your compatibility settings back.
Why can't you just remove the compatibility settings by right-clicking the file?
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Why can't you just remove the compatibility settings by right-clicking the file?
That depends on how and where they were set in the first place.
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Why can't you just remove the compatibility settings by right-clicking the file?
That depends on how and where they were set in the first place.
In other words ... You could IF that same method was the only way the compatibility settings were set in the first place.
I should mention that there are a fair number of users who are running descent 3 on Win7 32bit and 64bit systems and are reporting no more trouble than Descent 3 would normally give. I've been hoping one of those users would chime in on this conversation and lend some advice.
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Why can't you just remove the compatibility settings by right-clicking the file?
That depends on how and where they were set in the first place.
In other words ... You could IF that same method was the only way the compatibility settings were set in the first place.
I should mention that there are a fair number of users who are running descent 3 on Win7 32bit and 64bit systems and are reporting no more trouble than Descent 3 would normally give. I've been hoping one of those users would chime in on this conversation and lend some advice.
I tried. I failed. I need to start making notes of my installation procedures, if for no other reason so that when something goes haywire I know how to reinstall all my old games.
I wasn't aware there was another way to set compatibility settings. :o
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I should mention that there are a fair number of users who are running descent 3 on Win7 32bit and 64bit systems and are reporting no more trouble than Descent 3 would normally give. I've been hoping one of those users would chime in on this conversation and lend some advice.
Honestly, this whole thread baffles me.
I've installed Descent3 on:
Vista x86
Vista x64
Win7 x86
Win7 x64
... and I've *never* had a single issue. Perhaps this is because I avoid the compatibility settings altogether. Compat-settings are not needed in D3 for any reason whatsoever; and in my experience, it causes problems if you use them.
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Foil, I think this is because you have UAC turned off, you are the only user on your system (the only one who uses D3), you are administrator, you always either installed to C:\Games (outside of pf) or on a FAT32 partition, you don't play SP or co-op, you always had well-supported graphics cards and sound drivers, you know every single quirk of D3, and you never attempted to uninstall the game. And of course you never used the compatibility mode.
As soon as one of these conditions pops in you can easily get a very hard time with D3. :)
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I forgot the patches. You already have the correct patches and extensions you need next to you. That makes it all a lot easier too. :)
Average Joe goes to PC World or Comet, grabs a PC, buys the anti virus at the till after being talked into.
Those things definitely won't give you a peaceful time with D3. :)
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Okay, I have been an administrator-level user for each of those installations.
However:
*I never turn off UAC.
*All those installations are on NTFS
*I do in fact play both singleplayer and co-op
*I've used old drivers (although I typically update them when possible)
*I even host dedicated D3 servers on those machines
Sorry, Thomas. D3 installation is not problematic on Vista/7. From my experience, if you avoid mucking around with compatibility settings, it's a very smooth, very easy, process.
Heck, you can take an existing Descent3/Merc install, copy the /Descent3 folder over the network to a Vista/7 machine, and it works perfectly after re-detecting video/audio in the launcher. (The only issue with that method is that you don't get the Merc registry entries, which are needed to select the BP in a game.)
Again, it's simple, and it works FINE on Vista and Win7. If you're mucking around with compatibility settings and the registry, you're probably causing more problems than you're fixing.
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ROTFL, Foil.
And that's what you call easy? ;D
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Yes, Thomas. I call this "easy":
1. Copy the entire /Descent3 folder to any Vista/7 machine.
2. Run the game, set up video/audio in the launcher as normal.
3. Enjoy.
You don't think that's easy?
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Didn't you just forget the rest of your explanation? ;)
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Oh, you mean this?
4. (Optional) Re-enter the Merc registry entries if desired.
I don't (because I never ever fly the Black Pyro), but that step is easy, too: Double-click a .reg file, done.
Easy.
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Yes, that step is easy. :)
I reckon you got the BP disabled when you host servers, because without these registry settings servers tend to crash when BPs are playing (actually: dying or leaving).
You also forgot the step of creating the required shortcuts, unless you always open your game folder to run D3.
But then, where do you get this copy from when you just bought the CDs on the internet and your machine from Comet? ;D
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I reckon you got the BP disabled when you host servers, because without these registry settings servers tend to crash when BPs are playing (actually: dying or leaving).
Not at all. (See below. If I'm hosting servers from a machine, I just do a quick clean install.)
You also forgot the step of creating the required shortcuts, unless you always open your game folder to run D3.
Creating a shortcut is not difficult.
But then, where do you get this copy from when you just bought the CDs on the internet and your machine from Comet? ;D
Clean install on a Vista/7 machine from scratch is simple, too:
1. Install Descent3 (installer runs from the CD just fine if you leave compatibility settings alone).
2. Install Merc (this installer also runs from the CD just fine)
3. Install the appropriate v1.4 patch. (I keep the patch file handy, but it's easy enough to find online.)
4. Enjoy.
Thomas, I really appreciate your work on Hunter's D3Server tool, but why you insist that a simple D3 installation is some complex issue, I don't know.
It's easy, and as long as you avoid using compatibility settings, it works perfectly on Vista/7.
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Thomas, I really appreciate your work on Hunter's D3Server tool, but why you insist that a simple D3 installation is some complex issue, I don't know.
I don't understand what D3Server3 has got to do with the the installation of Descent 3 apart from that both are related to my intention to keep Descent 3 alive, because I simply love the game. :)
I do insist in that it's difficult to install Descent 3, because this is where I failed miserably myself when I first installed it. For you it's very easy (and trust me, for me too now). ;D
But we both know the game and what it requires inside out.
I got no clue why people keep telling me (or others) that the installation of D3 is simple, while we received a couple of hundred private messages or emails already that tell us exactly the opposite. I certainly do believe you, Foil. The installation is simple for you. But it was not for me, not for Kaiz, not for my neighbour, not for my 20 year old student (computer science!), and not for hundreds of other people.
Take your "copy idea", for example. Do you really believe that it's an easy task for a standard computer user to find out why they can't use the BP or play a Mercenary game? I somehow don't. It took me one complete day to analyze and go through every single change I've made just to find out that the Mercenary uninstall registry key plays the only role in this. :'(
Maybe I should blame Google, because it wouldn't want to return a single result for the error message I kept getting. :)
It's easy, and as long as you avoid using compatibility settings, it works perfectly on Vista/7.
Again, it did for you, because you obviously never ran into any trouble you couldn't solve with the knowledge you have on the subject, and from your other posts I suspect that you're happy with what you couldn't get working or don't bother to get working.
Almost every third computer I've installed D3 on needed the -nomultitexture command line switch because the video output was entirely corrputed without it. How is someone supposed to know that? I found out because that was the switch that made most sense for me, but it took quite some time to find it. Trial and error. :)
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Does your D3 include -nomultitexture in the command line by default?
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Huh? On probably 30+ D3 installations on as many machines (from Win98 to Win7, using both NVidia and ATI cards, and even some with integrated graphics), I have NEVER used or needed the -nomultitexture option.
If you need to use it that often, I think there's something you're doing wrong.
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Huh? On probably 30+ D3 installations on as many machines (from Win98 to Win7, using both NVidia and ATI cards, and even some with integrated graphics), I have NEVER used or needed the -nomultitexture option.
If you need to use it that often, I think there's something you're doing wrong.
And that's where you're wrong. I've needed that option since I got vista, and everything else works perfectly.
I assume you're talking about the issue where all you get is a funky light-show when the level reloads or when you go to options/automap/alt-tab?
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If you need to use it that often, I think there's something you're doing wrong.
Yes, maybe. Do you have some hints for me on what I might be doing wrong?
(Apart from obviously not using NVidia or ATI, or course.)
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I've needed that option since I got vista, and everything else works perfectly.
I have two Vista machines at home. One 32-bit, one 64-bit. I've had NVidia and ATI cards on both.
...And I've never needed that switch, on either machine.
I assume you're talking about the issue where all you get is a funky light-show when the level reloads or when you go to options/automap/alt-tab?
I've seen that before, but only with very old video drivers.
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I assume you're talking about the issue where all you get is a funky light-show when the level reloads or when you go to options/automap/alt-tab?
I've seen that before, but only with very old video drivers.
Mmm! I get that too! I have updated drivers and a really good Nivida video card and that only occurs when I run with OpenGL. Pardon for hijacking the thread, but is there a fix for that so I can run OpenGL?
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I have two Vista machines at home. One 32-bit, one 64-bit. I've had NVidia and ATI cards on both.
...And I've never needed that switch, on either machine.
I'm pretty sure that your two Vista machines cover all available hardware and drivers. ;)
And I'm pretty sure that this amazing experience entitles you to speak for everybody who ever wanted or wants to install Descent 3 on any computer anywhere. ;)
Come on, Foil...
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I never said or implied that my experience is universal. (Though after many many D3 installs on Vista\7 machines, I think I have some relevant experience).
I'm rebutting your universal statements about D3 being difficult on Vista/7, like:
...Descent 3 is old enough to not run on Windows 7 anymore - at least not out of the box without spending a lot of time on it...
Not true. (See my posts.)
Honestly, it's almost a crime to install Descent 3 and Mercenary from the original CDs.
Again, not true. (Again, see my posts.)
Come on, Thomas...
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I get that too! I have updated drivers and a really good Nivida video card and that only occurs when I run with OpenGL. Pardon for hijacking the thread, but is there a fix for that so I can run OpenGL?
That (and the similar black-screen issue when going to menu or scores screen) is an issue with NVidia's OpenGL support. It became broken starting with the drivers after 163.x, as I recall.
Best suggestion if you're running on a good modern video card, and performance is not an issue, is to go to Direct3D.
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I've heard D3D gives its own host of issues too.
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Thanks to the dumb bitdepth issue it looks kind of grainy, but that can be fixed by setting the bitdepth to 32. Now if only you didn't have to do that every last time you played...
In general though, it appears to render the lightmaps a lot nicer than OpenGL does. I don't know why.
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Not true. (See my posts.)
Foil, please walk out your main door, go 200 meters left or right, it's your choice, find that gaming freak in your neighbourhood (not his parents),
Drop your 3 Descent 3 CDs in his hands, D3 1, 2, and Mercanary.
Don't say anything else but "I'll see you in Ascent tongiht". You can tell him that Thomas pays 20 bucks when he's there.
If he doesn't come, please consider that I prefer cold served lager, Stella would be a good choice. :)
Please stop talking about how easy it is to install D3. You are mistaken here, and I'm looking forward to my pint of Stella. :)
That's my last comment on this subject here. If you think you know better, good. Have it your way.
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Thomas,
Foil is not alone on the easy Descent 3 install. Having a hard time installing it is the exception, not the rule.
Tempers seem to be getting a bit "warm" ... let's cool a bit before we get carried away.
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Not true. (See my posts.)
Foil, please walk out your main door, go 200 meters left or right, it's your choice, find that gaming freak in your neighbourhood (not his parents),
Drop your 3 Descent 3 CDs in his hands, D3 1, 2, and Mercanary.
Don't say anything else but "I'll see you in Ascent tongiht". You can tell him that Thomas pays 20 bucks when he's there.
If he doesn't come, please consider that I prefer cold served lager, Stella would be a good choice. :)
Please stop talking about how easy it is to install D3. You are mistaken here, and I'm looking forward to my pint of Stella. :)
That's my last comment on this subject here. If you think you know better, good. Have it your way.
That wouldn't even work for Halo...
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The truth is somewhere in the middle. Not that anyone is untruthful, let's just say opinionated! ;)
(http://rantthisspace.com/media/1/penguin.gif)
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I request a thread lock. Thomas, you went way out of hand here. I trust Foil's knowledge as much as yours, and I think you both have your own ways of doing things. This thread was supposed to be asking for help installing, not a competition between who is right and who is not.
Thomas, I appreciate the help, but that was going too far.
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As you wish. I believe Thomas and Foil were reasonably civil, and I would welcome either one to start a topic on the subject if they wish. However, This topic was a request for help, not a request for a discussion of whether or not D3 is easy to install.