Planet Descent

From the Front Page => News Board => Topic started by: Scottris on December 24, 2013, 05:10:13 PM

Title: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scottris on December 24, 2013, 05:10:13 PM: (http://www.talongame.com/img/talon.png)

(http://www.talongame.com/screens/screen_2013.12.24.19.29.57.335343-small.jpg)

Fellow Descent fans, it give me great pleasure to announce the release of my little 6dof shooter. It's been a long time coming, but it's finally out! I want to thank those who have provided feedback and support, and especially those who have helped me beta test the game. It's come a long way in the past couple of months. Work is not finished, though. This is an Early Access release, because there are still some enhancements and improvements to be made. More maps, more game modes, new features are planned, but this need not keep anyone from enjoying the game! So go ahead, click the shiny button below and get your copy now!

(http://www.talongame.com/img/buy_now.png) (http://sites.fastspring.com/refractorystudios/product/talon)

Happy holidays!
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: -<WillyP>- on December 24, 2013, 05:23:26 PM: Congratulations!

This is a very enjoyable game, in many ways it is very similar to Descent multiplayer. I've played in the beta a bit, and the game runs well, has a very nice 'Descenty' feel to it, and the developer is very involved with and responsive to the players.

I highly encourage every fan of Descent multiplayer to take a closer look.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Kaiaatzl on December 24, 2013, 05:52:21 PM: Seconded (and not just because I worked on the music :D).
I got a chance to play Talon on LAN with a couple of friends during the beta, and it is incredibly fun -- even better against real people than it is against bots (and the bots themselves are still pretty fun to play against). The cloaking device adds a depth to the gameplay that even D3 multiplayer didn't have. It's a really amazing job done on a really great game and especially a really great christmas present to the Descent community (and I think to gamers in general).
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: -<WillyP>- on December 25, 2013, 04:53:30 AM: Did I forget to mention, the music is really good, too?
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: PyroJockey on December 26, 2013, 07:50:11 PM: Maybe I'm being overly cautions, but in this day and age they are asking for a lot of personal information for a simple $15 PayPal purchase.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scottris on December 27, 2013, 03:32:23 PM: It is an unfortunate consequence of the "one size fits all" customer order form that the merchant software uses. I don't like that it requires any more information than absolutely necessary, and I am doing what I can to correct this.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scottris on December 28, 2013, 02:38:01 PM: Changes have been made to the order process and it should now require less information if you are ordering via paypal.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: PyroJockey on December 28, 2013, 08:15:35 PM: Quote from: Scottris on December 28, 2013, 02:38:01 PM
Changes have been made to the order process and it should now require less information if you are ordering via paypal.

Much better, but don't bother calling my phone number unless you want to make a reservation at a Sheraton hotel. ;)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scyphi on December 30, 2013, 04:57:23 PM: Techpro and I have been test playing it for a gaming fest this New Years. Though I have to admit that I don't share the same interest in the music as WillyP does (sorry), it's been pretty fun. Very Descent-like, yet at the same time not just straight Descent; you can't play it like any other Descent game, it has too many new elements to it, so it has a challenging edge to it even for an experienced Descent player (not that I'm THAT experienced).

I did note that the terrain stage was all fun and good, especially since I noticed that gravity DOES apply to your gameplay (neat little effect, that, sets its gameplay apart from the other maps) but without fail, after awhile the fight always veers up into the sky away from the terrain, and then it's just too wide and open and there's nothing to dodge and weave behind. I wish the gameplay could be forced closer to the ground, so you would have to navigate through the terrain's features, like the canyons and buildings...like you would in a terrain-based D3 level. I would also think this would give the player the chance to play with that gravity effect and use it to their advantage more, whereas now it's just more of a neat effect that enhances the experience, but doesn't REALLY affect gameplay all that much.

But other than that, it's a great game, especially if you're real big on the multiplayer games. You can really feel the attention to detail that has been placed in this game, things the player wouldn't normally stop to consider. :D
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: TechPro on December 30, 2013, 05:34:18 PM: It is definitely geared for multiplayer, however I (personally) think it has great potential for singleplayer mode as well, but I don't think that is in development for it.

In my server hosting settings, at first I toned down the AI Bot "skill" level and while the "Bot players" moved around good, they were pretty random and didn't shoot at you much. Then I set the skill level to High and chose a closed in Capture map ... and the Bots killed me quickly and repeatedly. So... for what it's worth.

The default music selection was good and well suited for the game plus it had obvious Descent characteristics. You can customize your music selection, but I didn't find any means to add your own music choices. After a while of hearing the music it comes with, I'll probably be turning the music off all the time, then run a separate player in the background.

One of the maps is a "BattleCube" which is basically a large cube and all the ships are moving around inside. The thing that is significantly different is the small cubes tumbling around inside the big cube, providing temporary cover or sometimes blocking your shots.

I especially liked the idea of being able to "reload" your ship. When you run out of weaponry, you pull into a designated location and hit the "power down" button. While your ship "settles" (if there is gravity in effect), you weaponry payload and energy is reloaded. It's also a chance to change what weapons you're carrying.

The "power down" option option allows your ship to fall in areas with gravity. If you're on a terrain map and above the surface a bit, hitting the power down causes your ship to fall to the surface... until you power back up.

The Cloak option is nice, however you're not allowed to use your weaponry while cloaked... which some players may dislike. Since you can turn the cloak off and on whenever you want, at any time ... I think it's wise to have the weaponry restriction while cloaked. Star Trek fans may equate this to the Klingon cloak (cannot fire while cloaked).

Looks to be fun. Not a Descent replacement, but definitely Descent like.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scottris on January 01, 2014, 12:01:47 PM: Quote from: Scyphi on December 30, 2013, 04:57:23 PM
I wish the gameplay could be forced closer to the ground, so you would have to navigate through the terrain's features, like the canyons and buildings...like you would in a terrain-based D3 level.

This can be done, it's all in how you build the map. Each map defines a flight ceiling, and there's nothing stopping a map builder from building up mountain walls and setting that ceiling below the top of the mountains.

Quote
You can really feel the attention to detail that has been placed in this game, things the player wouldn't normally stop to consider. :D

Thanks for noticing. :)

Quote from: TechPro on December 30, 2013, 05:34:18 PM
It is definitely geared for multiplayer, however I (personally) think it has great potential for singleplayer mode as well, but I don't think that is in development for it.

I have long wanted to make objective-based single player campaign missions in Talon similar to those found in flight sims. The only reason I haven't is due to the effort involved and my time/budget constraints. Multiplayer maps are easier to build, and you get arguably more mileage out of them; plus I do love multiplayer. Hopefully Talon does well, and I can afford to invest in expanding it, including some good single player content.

Thinking about it again, I remember that I really used to love the search-and-destroy missions in the original Novalogic Comanche game. That type of single player mission is much easier to build than more complex story/objective driven types, so there's a better chance I could put something like that together. I will look into it as soon as time allows.

Quote
The "power down" option option allows your ship to fall in areas with gravity. If you're on a terrain map and above the surface a bit, hitting the power down causes your ship to fall to the surface... until you power back up.

There is another advantage of powering down, if circumstances permit. When your ship is powered down, you do not show on enemy radar. This could potentially be used to hide and catch an opponent off-guard. It's risky, though, because your shields will be down and they will need time to recharge when you power up.

Quote
Star Trek fans may equate this to the Klingon cloak (cannot fire while cloaked).

Yeah.. that's where the idea came from, and I think it's a good mechanic because it requires you to make the tactical choice to hide or attack. I think it's also good for multiplayer because it's less annoying to be on the receiving end of (kinda sucks getting attacked by an invisible opponent); and you have to consider both sides when designing for multiplayer (not an easy task sometimes).
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Kaiaatzl on January 01, 2014, 09:16:43 PM: I love the cloak...
I'm sure I could come up with a single-player plotline if you want help. I somehow managed to become the head writer on Sol Contingency so I seem to have something more than music to offer.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: TechPro on January 01, 2014, 11:39:51 PM: We (myself, Scyphi, his two younger brothers, and his sister) on New Years Eve spent a couple hours playing Talon and had a really good time. We did, however, notice one "problem" of sorts...

After playing Talon for a while, we couldn't pilot our Pyro's in Descent 3 very well at all... at least until after we adjusted. The problem? The pitch axis in Descent 3 is like a plane's stick control (pull back to angle up, push forward to angle down) but in Talon it's reversed. Thankfully, you can set your controls in Talon to invert the pitch axis. After doing that, I can easily jump from Talon to Descent (or vice versa) without having to "adapt" at all.

Something other Descent players may want to keep in mind.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scyphi on January 02, 2014, 07:59:57 AM: ...unless those other Descent players have their pitch axis in Descent reversed already too, because I KNOW you can do that, I just don't remember where the darn control for it is... :P

Quote from: Scottris
This can be done, it's all in how you build the map. Each map defines a flight ceiling, and there's nothing stopping a map builder from building up mountain walls and setting that ceiling below the top of the mountains.

Well, hopefully we'll see something like that soon, then. :D

Quote from: Kaiaatzel
I love the cloak...

Likewise, and I think it's handled very well. You can either hide, or fight, but not both. And you can't hide forever either, although why you'd want to in Talon I wouldn't know, since you can't score without fighting back and you can't do that while cloaked. ::)

Quote from: Kaiaatzel
I'm sure I could come up with a single-player plotline if you want help. I somehow managed to become the head writer on Sol Contingency so I seem to have something more than music to offer.

Heh, I find that funny, because those guys were trying to recruit me for a whole bunch of other things except writing, which is definitely my forte (although I may not advertise that much on the Descent forums, so maybe that's why). Kept turning them down either because I wasn't confident I could dedicate the time to it, or didn't have the skills to meet demand as much as they apparently believed, but if they had asked if I wanted to help write, I would've JUMPED at the chance. :P Oh well.

Point is, is that I'm willing to offer to help write a single player campaign as well if interested. I have a few ideas that have long been bouncing around in my head that'd fit well for a 6dof game and could be made to fit Talon with some tweaking, or could come up with something entirely new if prompted. :)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Kaiaatzl on January 02, 2014, 09:53:40 AM: Lol, well, I'm not looking for additional writers on Sol Contingency yet. I will be very soon though.
I don't see Sol Contingency and Talon as competitors because the two games are focused on very different things. Which is why I have no problem working on both of them.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: -<WillyP>- on January 02, 2014, 06:17:49 PM: My impression of Scottris's response to the idea of a single-player version of Talon was that he had no interest... though, I believe he did not rule it out completely.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scyphi on January 03, 2014, 08:17:48 AM: My impression is that he's open to the idea, but had no real plans for it at present.

Which is okay, I'm sure he's got his hands full enough as it is, but that's still there just in case. :)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scottris on January 03, 2014, 09:05:53 AM: Sorry if I gave that impression, WillyP. I am in fact interested, although I have had no immediate plans for it; really owing only to a lack of time and budget.

I chose to focus on multiplayer for several reasons:

1) I was primarily a multiplayer player in Descent(3), and that's really what I missed.

2) Multiplayer requires fewer game assets, and gets better mileage out of them. I needed that value/efficiency because this project was already stupidly ambitious for a single developer.

3) Mutiplayer demands better game dynamics and balance, whereas when developing a single player game there are any number of quick and easy "shortcut" solutions to improve gameplay (like simply giving the player powers like invisibility or invulnerability, or way upping the strength of the ship or weapons, which always feels good to the person wielding them, less so to the one on the receiving end... but when that is a computer it hardly matters). Because multiplayer requires one to consider how things feel from both sides, I think it's better to start by hashing out the gameplay in multiplayer first, then extending to single player content; rather than the other way around, where one is likely to fall into the trap of producing a fun single player game where the dynamics simply don't work well in multiplayer (but by the time you find that out it's really too late to fix it).

(This is getting rambly, far less organized and eloquent than I prefer, but I'm afraid I don't have time to do better today, so please forgive.)

Thus I started with multiplayer. Single player didn't satisfy the cost/benefit analysis. Although I have spent many more hours playing multiplayer Descent, I have spent just as many hours playing single player games over the years. I do like single player, and there are many types of single player game modes I enjoy and would like to make. I like the objective-driven campaign style missions often found in flight and space sims. I enjoyed the simple find-the-goal play of the first two Descent games. I would like to have these things in Talon.

I have not wanted to make any promises, however, since I can't be sure what I can deliver in this regard.

I can say that what is most likely to happen first is a single player mode similar to what was found in the old DOS Comanche game by Novalogic (if anyone remembers that), which was a simple search-and-destroy system on open maps (very similar to Killing Fields), with bases and groups of enemy fighters positioned at points around the map. The goal is to clear the objective points (bonus for clearing the entire map) without dying. This is very do-able, because it requires not much more in terms of game assets and scripting than I already have. This then is what I plan to work on first in terms of developing single player for Talon, although I am making no promises as to when (or even if) it will happen at this point.

I am definitely interested, though.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: -<WillyP>- on January 03, 2014, 11:42:41 AM: Cool. Glad I was wrong, and thanks for setting me straight! ;)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scyphi on January 04, 2014, 09:24:47 AM: That actually sounds like a very sensible plan to go about approaching this, Scottris. But if you do go for the single-player...you know where we are. ;)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Hunter on January 14, 2014, 04:23:36 AM: Single player projects, for any game, are just a huge amount of work. But given that many projects these days are crowd funded, anything is possible down the pipeline. I'd give anything to be able to finish my own projects :)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scottris on January 14, 2014, 11:18:57 AM: Hey Hunter! Good to see you. What are you up to these days?
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Hunter on January 15, 2014, 04:35:20 AM: Not much, working to put food on the table and a little bit of downtime here and there. It's about all I have time to do these days :)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: D2Disciple on July 30, 2014, 12:28:00 PM: Shameless thread bump!

I seriously didn't know Talon was actually a thing, so I downloaded the demo... And now I want the real deal. Very Descent-like, but faster-paced and more twitchy - very ideally suited to MP. Kudos to developer Scott Richards - this is some great stuff, and you seriously have some skills. If you've ever thought of game development as a career, this is a heck of a resume to start with.

I've got fifteen bucks on wanting to get into some solid 6DOF gameplay. Question is: Anyone playing?
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scottris on July 30, 2014, 07:43:12 PM: Quote from: D2Junkie on July 30, 2014, 12:28:00 PM
Question is: Anyone playing?

Unfortunately, I must report that, no, there is little to no activity online at this point. I have not [yet] done sufficient marketing outside of the Descent community, and as a result have not achieved the critical mass required to maintain activity online. It is not my intention to make excuses, but life has been complicated these last 8 months. I hope, but cannot promise, that I will find more time soon to work on a better marketing plan.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: D2Disciple on July 31, 2014, 08:42:56 AM: Sorry to hear that. I'll still buy the early access because you've earned it. 8) But I get what you're saying about marketing. Truth is, I know there's an audience out there because Descent still has a huge following that doesn't even realize that the community is still thriving. In today's multiplayer obsessed culture, Talon could get some serious traction among gamers that left the 6DOF scene after it faded into obscurity after D4 was cancelled.

It doesn't hurt that it looks good and plays amazingly well, either. ;)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: NUMBERZero on August 01, 2014, 03:00:26 AM: I'll see about telling some of my clanmates about it.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: D2Disciple on August 02, 2014, 06:29:15 AM: Just purchased and downloaded Talon and updated to 1.0.3.

Here are my thoughts:

Gameplay is beyond excellent. Each craft is very well balanced and has equal pros and cons. From a physics standpoint, I love that the craft have mass and inertia despite being zero-G. Being able to select your weapon loadout from the start was a very good idea; I always hated having to hunt down a Fusion or Vauss and a couple of napalm rockets to stand a chance in D3 multiplayer. The limited ammo helps negate any one weapon from being better than the others, and being able to pick up ammo dumps from downed players means that you're not absolutely committed to your weapons loadout. Cloaking is an interesting concept; the only change I would make to the formula is to have a limit on how long you can stay cloaked and keep players' shields from recharging during cloaking, but strategy balance is still pretty good as it stands. I like the idea of introducing rogue players to team deathmatch and capture and hold.

Enemy AI is... Passable. On the plus side, on the hardest setting, bots duck and weave and evade shots well. However, in wide open spaces, they just can't seem to draw a bead on other bots or players. Creating a capture and hold game does help the AI figure out their targets a bit. Still, this isn't a game about bots, so theoretically, this should be a moot point.

Level design is, overall, good. Warehouse is classic Descent, and is therefore my favorite map. I also really like Frontier, which, much like Hunter's Hyperspace mods for D3, prove that zero-G 6DOF control works extremely well in the context of a space sim. I can see capture and hold games on this map being especially intense with a few human players involved. Killing Fields suffers from a minor issue Scyphi and Techpro already pointed out: Fights start low and inevitably gravitate towards the sky. There's just not enough interesting terrain to keep things low to the ground. Still, it's a fun level. Lastly, Bunker and Battlecube are maybe just a little too simplistic in their design, but of the two I much prefer Battlecube. I know there are plenty of very talented mapmakers in the Descent community, so I don't see why some new truly excellent maps couldn't be developed for it.

Sound design is also very good, with some great tunes from the Descent community. Sound effects are just a little weak, but I can well imagine developing earth-shattering sound effects a la Freespace 2 would be difficult. They're not bad at all, and overall, it's pretty tertiary to the gameplay.

Presentation is also excellent. The menus are easy to navigate, everything is very clear and easy to understand, and the interface has an appreciably modern style to it. HUD design is fantastic; it presents all the information anyone could want on their cockpit. Shields, hull strength, weapons info, enemy craft info, lead indicators, you name it - Talon does it, and does it with a very, very cool look.

Stability and performance seem to also be excellent. The game runs very, very smoothly at 1366x768 (my monitor's native resolution) on my old hack of a desktop, A 3.0Ghz Pentium D with 2GB DDR2 RAM and a GeForce 8600 GT. Even some older games freak out on such bottom-shelf hardware, but Talon seems to put it to good use. Visual effects and lighting are consistently excellent, and in the heat of battle, the game looks great.

The games only major flaw, and it has absolutely nothing to do with development: Just as developer Scottris said, it needs players. The Descent community needs to buy this and organize fight nights. With such a small community, that's the only way games will be played - and I think this seriously has a chance of besting D3's multiplayer if there were more players and a few players wanting to build maps. Heck, according to the forums, there are already methods of converting D1/D2 levels into formats supported by Talon. Let this be an open letter to the Descent community: You have fifteen bucks, and you want this game. Of course, getting players to come to a multiplayer-only game with very few players is going to be difficult...

...So, to finish this very long post, I have a possible solution. I mentioned above that the 6DOF controls worked absolutely wonderfully in open space, which gives me an idea: would it be possible to develop a one-size fits all giant space level and it's own mission creator, like Freespace's FRED? Because I'm thinking a 6DOF space sim might be one way to easily create a fun, short single-player campaign, especially if the Freespace community got involved (I'm sure there are a few who would love this game). If something like this could be developed, I think you'd have a very easy sell to a bunch of gamers who left PC gaming behind when everything turned to hardware-benchmark shooters and MMORPGs. And of course, once you convinced them to come for some space-sim action, it wouldn't be hard to convince them to stay for a few rounds of team deathmatch. ;)

Just an idea; I'm not even sure the engine would handle anything like this. But it's crazy enough that it might work, honestly.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Kaiaatzl on August 02, 2014, 06:43:54 AM: There's already been some custom maps developed -- none of them in space but that's just cuz most designers wanted to create the Descent aspect. I can't imagine building a space map would be very hard even with what tools already exist -- it's basically a skybox with a little bit of stuff sprinkled around.
I keep telling people on the Talon forums that we need to start organizing games so people actually know when to find a game, but nobody listens!
There is a limit on how long you can cloak, but you might not realize it if you don't play like I do. ;D
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: D2Disciple on August 02, 2014, 07:10:17 AM: The most difficult part of a space mission would inevitably be crafting new ships - enemies, cruisers, capital ships, etc., but after that, all you've really got left is scripting. Create a seek-and-destroy mission, a couple of escort missions, a couple of take-down-the-capital-ship missions, open it up to online co-op to up to 4 players and you'd really sweeten the fifteen dollar pot.

And we should totally organize a game, Kai!
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scyphi on August 02, 2014, 09:57:24 AM: Quote from: D2Junkie
Because I'm thinking a 6DOF space sim might be one way to easily create a fun, short single-player campaign, especially if the Freespace community got involved (I'm sure there are a few who would love this game).

I know this hasn't been Scottris's plan for promoting Talon, but I'm starting D2Junkie's got the right idea here, and it helps I made an observation about space sins just earlier today. I was watching a top-ten video on YouTube about upcoming space sims (as of mid-2013, which is about the same now as it was then) and noticed that they were ALL MMORPGs, all bearing multiplayer as the primary focus. Now, I can see the appeal of a space-sim MMORPG just as much as the next guy (even though they aren't my kind of game), but that seems just more than a little excessive to me if all the "good" space-sim games on the market, both currently and upcoming, are MMORPGs. It seems like the time would be now to do something a little different.

Which is where Talon fits in, because it occurs to me that, from the outsider's perspective looking for a new game to try, Talon looks like just another one of those MMORPGs, except pocket-size and the RPG element eliminated. Now we obviously know there's more to it than that because we've all played it, and are previously familiar with the sort of formula it runs off of; we know it works as-is. But at first glance, it's hard for Talon to convey that until you actually play it...which means you gotta get a player interested enough in it to try it out. And from that perspective, it's hard to see what Talon has that numerous other games don't.

And then there's the fact it's all multiplayer-driven. That's all fine and dandy, but after awhile there's really only so much multiplayer you can do before it becomes "more of the same." Also, with all the MMORPGs and like games bouncing around, it's possible the market's on the verge of facing a sort of "multiplayer burn-out," where people have to stop and ask "do we REALLY need another one of these?" I know I'm starting to feel that, and looking around at the other players in the world, even though they don't explicitly say it, I'm starting to think they're starting to come to similar conclusions.

The point I'm trying to make is that maybe Talon needs to do something to sweeten the deal, something to help it stand out more. From a technical standpoint it's good, but that's something you don't "see," it's something you "feel," which you have to play the game to experience. But if you can't "see" it, it's hard to understand it's there. Without that, Talon, I must admit, doesn't "look" all that special.

So maybe we can throw something in with it to make it "look" more appealing. The obvious thing would be to throw in some kind of single-player campaign of any length, but if that's off the table, I'm sure there are other things one could do. For example, I was unaware until reading these recent posts that Talon had development tools now. Maybe if Talon advertised that capability more, or better still, came pre-packaged with such tools, as well as presented some quick and easy means to find and download custom maps, that would generate interest. Just throwing out some thoughts here.

Also, speaking of development tools, point me in the direction of some, and I'll see if I can put together a "tweaked" version of Killing Fields that makes the players more obligated to stay closer to the terrain. ;)
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: D2Disciple on August 02, 2014, 05:05:05 PM: Scyphi, I think you and I are on the same page here. I'm not sure if anyone has ever done a 6DOF space sim before; it's an opportunity for Talon to do something different without resorting to gimmicky gameplay alterations to make it stand out. It already proves it can handle indoor missions, outdoor missions, and space missions... That's a good start in convincing people to join up and play.

On the subject of singleplayer, I have a genuinely doable idea that would require only a little scripting and maybe a bit of map-making. I find that staying simple sometimes works much better than trying to be complex; it's why I prefer D1 and D2's key-based gameplay over D3's objective-based gameplay. And Talon could easily include an arcade singleplayer and co-op mode a la Halo Reach's "Firefight" mode: model a few fighter craft to target the player(s), and a few bomber craft to attack a primary base in the center of the map. Provide a repair station and a reloading station on opposite ends of the map, and have waves of enemies come in from different angles. Make the initial waves smaller, with weaker ships and weaker weapons (pulse lasers and dart rockets), and move upward in the frequency and strength of the waves (more heavily-shielded bombers with buster rockets and faster fighters with raser cannons). Keep score, and give each player a maximum of five lives. Dole out extra lives at certain score intervals. The game ends when the players run out of lives or the primary base is destroyed by the attackers.

This would be easiest to add to Frontier as-is, and building a large mine and a large canyon level would create a wide variety of gameplay options with only a handful of maps.

To sweeten the deal, you could add a simpler "survival" mode to any of the existing maps, where waves attack only the player and the difficulty and strength of the opponents ramps up with each successive wave.

If you could keep global records (not sure if it's possible), I think you'd have a lot of people wanting to play this game. Pure, arcade 6DOF action is something that really hasn't existed before, either.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Kaiaatzl on August 02, 2014, 05:48:23 PM: Quote from: Scyphi on August 02, 2014, 09:57:24 AM
...it helps I made an observation about space sins just earlier today...

You mean like these guys?
http://youtu.be/Yw1tgs0NKas?t=17m25s (http://youtu.be/Yw1tgs0NKas?t=17m10s)
(17:25, the timecode stopped working as soon as there was another post XD)

Quote from: Scyphi on August 02, 2014, 09:57:24 AM
I was unaware until reading these recent posts that Talon had development tools now. Maybe if Talon advertised that capability more, or better still, came pre-packaged with such tools, as well as presented some quick and easy means to find and download custom maps, that would generate interest. Just throwing out some thoughts here.

I like this idea, it's a good starting point that's easy to do and could have a large payoff.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scyphi on August 03, 2014, 05:57:17 AM: Quote from: Kaiaatzel
You mean like these guys?

Sims! I meant space SIMS! :P

@ D2Junkie: I like a lot of those ideas. Relatively simple, but enough to add interest to an already promising game. Only problem is whether or not Scottris will go for them; it is HIS game, after all, and I don't know what sort of position he's in at the moment to make those sort of changes.
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Kaiaatzl on August 05, 2014, 07:13:47 PM: I thought of a really simple piece of trickery that could help with the space sim issue... to focus almost solely on the indoor combat in promotional material. Yeah, about the simplest thing possible to come up with.
Just seeing a trailer like that that shows "space" combat indoors would grab the attention of those MMORPG peoples even if they'd never heard of Descent. Cuz they'd be all curious, like "what a crazy idea. I wonder how that works." and follow linkies and find out and like it on facebook and be all 1337 and stuff. Curiosity is a powerful force. Just like gravity isn't (in this game).
It was like when I saw that book on TvTropes and I was like, that's such a crazy idea it's either going to be, like, totally awesome and insightful or, like, so horribly done it's hilarious. Either way I'm all, I want to read that.
And that point is, like, Talon is not horribly done. :P
Title: Re: Talon v1.0 Released!
Post by: Scyphi on August 06, 2014, 07:17:40 AM: Yeah, that could help, but I still worry it's not conveying enough, and we'd still have potential players passing it up...furthermore, I seem to recall that what promotional video Scottris has put out there pretty much has focused largely on indoor gameplay...though I could be remembering wrong...haven't watched said video in awhile...

Still...as good a place to start as any. :)

What I'd really like at this point, though, is to hear Scottris's two-bits on all of this right about now. I mean, this is his game, so I'd like to hear his opinion on all of this.