Planet Descent
Development => Descent Development => Topic started by: Naphtha on November 18, 2012, 10:01:13 AM
-
(Sorry in advance for such a long post... There's a lot of basic/not-so-basic info I felt I had to give on this idea! :P)
After taking a bit of a break following the release of "The Outer Reaches," I started getting a lot of ideas for my second mission. It's much bigger with concepts for roughly 20 to 25 levels right now, several of which I've finished alpha designs for. The mission is tentatively titled "Descent Dreamspace," but I realize there's already a mission on DMDB with a very similar name so I'm open to suggestions for a rename.
The reason for the current title is a design motif for parts of the mission: Surreal, but still beautiful. I don't want to take the surreal element to the "Look what we can do with the editor" level that is "Levels of the World," mind you. I'd rather come up with tasteful ways to take design ideas that might not have seen a lot of use elsewhere and possibly even make them a primary focus in certain levels.
Most of the levels are conceptualized in some form, but I'm willing to accept substitutions for at least a couple ideas if any other level designers would like to take part. If you'd like to contribute a level, keep in mind it would have to be for standard Descent 2 to allow for a wider audience. (Make them D2X-XL only and I wouldn't even be able play them! XD)
Tentatively, the mission would be split into four worlds or chapters. Each would likely be made up of roughly five obligatory levels (although I wouldn't mind if this varies a bit) and one secret level, and of course each would have its own texture scheme or story concept:
- Chapter 1: Environmental disasters as an underrunning theme. This could end up using GROUPA.PIG or WATER.PIG, depending on the nature of the levels.
- Chapter 2: Subterranean expedition. The main element here is "earth," which I'm hoping to distinguish from the "fire" element of Brimspark-like levels. Color scheme used is ALIEN1.PIG.
- Chapter 3: Trapped under ice. ICE.PIG, of course.
- Chapter 4: Techno industry. These levels may have a secondary theme for background/outdoor sections, but a base or facility would be the main focus. ALIEN2.PIG.
Finally, a list of what I'm looking for help with:
- Robot mods. I know Descent Valhalla has a download of the Robot Construction Kit, but it doesn't seem to be complete and I can't get it to run at all. If somebody has a full, working copy and a can transfer it, that'll be great. If you can coach me on how to use it as well, that'll be awesome. If not, I'll do what I can and at least sketch out concepts of new robots I had in mind. Ideally, I'd love to have a near-full set of replacements for D2 robots.
- Story fine-tuning. I have a rough concept, but I want help fine-tuning it and hunting for plotholes.
- Graphics for each chapter, hopefully (in the vein of Descent 1 or "The Lost Levels"). I had an additional idea for the briefings to set them apart, but because I can only work with specific media, I'd need help with some of the graphics.
- Advice on balancing the set and/or help building a .HAM to slightly balance the weapons. Most of my knowledge of Descent 2 item placement and weapon balance comes from observing other single-player missions, but I wouldn't mind an extra point of view to consider in trying to balance this mission.
I'll be happy to give more info, or upload some robot designs or examples of what I've completed so far. If it'd be easier to discuss this project on an instant messenger rather than via PM here, I do have an AIM handle I'll give out on request. But really, if anyone's interested, let me know, because any help would be great. :)
-
Story fine-tuning? Oh I can SO help you there, and then some!
I'd love to contribute a level too, but unfortunately the only level I have complete that's even worth mentioning is of D2X-XL design, and I don't have the time to build anything else at the moment. Well...actually I DO, but that's time that should probably be better spent at present, probably even more so than I've actually been spending it at the moment...long story.
But story fine-tuning, or anything pertaining to story creation/writing, I can quite readily help with. :D
-
I'd be offering to do the same thing as the Sythyry except he offered to do it first.
I mean the Scyphi.
I'll see about doing level design, you could put me down tentatively. Though my style may be a bit too realist for this project.
Your chapter 2 theme does give me some texture scheme ideas, at least, though.
The good thing it is that the you is not looking for soundtracks from the me, for the me already has two or three soundtracks to work on. This should do the explaining that I am not volunteering for soundtracks even without being asked or indicated in any way, like I usually do.
-
...the same thing as the Sythyry except...
That's a new one. :o
-
Naphtha,
I would be happy to help you in all things custom robots, custom weapons, level design, storyline, and possibly weapon balance. I'd like to see if I can get Blarget in on this as well. He taught me half the things I know about messing with custom content. The other half I learned on my own. I have a near-fully working Robot Construction Kit (I have everything that is useful working) and I can walk you through the process of getting it to work... on a VM.
You're welcome to use my custom Pyro-GX model as well.
(http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/users/179/Enzo03_s%20Pyro-GX%20upgrade%20d.jpg) (http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=592)
-
Awesomeness. I'd definitely love to have a copy of the construction kit for sure, and in the meantime, I'll work on any additional sketches to upload more robot ideas to work off of. I have a few unique ideas for things I'd love to exploit, but I might need even more help to set them up, so I'll be sure to include any details I had in mind when I message you with the scan links. ;)
-
I will say a few things about the Robot Construction Kit:
1) The version on Descent Valhalla is, in fact, complete. Or at the very least, contains everything you really need.
2) you have to use Windows XP or earlier for the RCK. Therefore, I recommend you either get an older computer or I can show you how to set up a Virtual Machine with Windows XP on it; it's basically like emulating a computer with WinXP, but better since you can transfer files to and from the VM.
3) It is recommended that you have rbotedit, which works great even on Win7 x64,
4) While we're at it, if you have any plans on editing player weapons at all, you'll need to use the DOS version of HAXMEdit. This can be problematic to run and more problematic to learn, but is worth the trouble. Blarget knows his way around it better, but I've done cool things with it tool; for example, I used both GXEdit and HAXMEdit together to make a legitimate Instagib cannon.
5) Very important to note: I'm a multiplayer guy. I'm not too keen on single player weapon balance and things like that. For these kinds of things you might be better off asking someone like DarkFlameWolf. On the other hand, I've been wanting to get more into single player stuff for years and I know a few twisted tricks of my own that make levels extremely interesting.
-
I'd much rather have the VM. IThere is a working XP here at home, but I'm only home from college for the week of Thanksgiving, so...
I do have RBotEdit, and I think the only things I'd really need to know about it are what some of the parameters mean as well as the save options. The "bitmap area" parameter in particular is confusing, since I was thinking I'd only need to say what robot to replace once.
The weapon mods also weren't going to be too major. I was only planning on making tweaks to damage and energy consumption to keep certain weapons from being too overpowered or useless, but not a full set of new weapons for now. Just a little rebalancing. ;)
-
For a VM I recommend VMLite Workstation. If you have an XP CD handy, you can use it. VMLite also installs Windows XP Mode as an XP OS. This is what I use.
Well regarding RBotEdit, for me it's like I took my first bike ride in 6 years. I don't remember about the bitmap area thing because yes, it is very confusing. I think it had to do with the fact that you can normally only use a specific number of textures adjacent to each other in the game files. You have to be a bit careful messing with them, but it's not too bad.
Might even be worth it to make a .POG or something with the right textures already set so you don't have to screw around with all of that ugly stuff.
Again, if you're doing any weapon mods at all, you'll still need the DOS version of HAXMEdit. Even with this, it's less intuitive than it should be to change up or tweak weapons. But in HAXMEdit32, you are completely unable to change player weapons at all iirc because it could lead to *multiplayer cheating*. GXEdit screws with the damage you take in multiplayer, though that can easily be fixed.
-
Well, back at college until December 12th and then I'll be back home to try and mess with the Construction Kit on either the XP desktop or to figure out the last couple kinks. I got a full version through a link set up by Krom on DescentBB (found here (http://www.descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19532)) and it seems to start up okay, except that I can't get past the splash screen no matter what I press. I don't know if the VM is missing in the download and that's why I can't go further, but it sounded like it should work as it is.
I haven't gotten around to their troubleshooting suggestions just yet because the last few weeks of the semester are keeping me too busy to be online for long, but in the meantime, I figure there's something else I can do, which is upload what I have so far for the levels themselves. It's all in a winzip that I uploaded through Dropbox, and I'm sending a PM with the link to anyone who may be interested in designing for the mission, just to get more of a feel for what I might be looking for.
-
There is a strong chance that I may be unable to help out much this winter. Classes went quite a bit south.
-
Damn, really? D: I'm hoping it didn't go as bad as you're expecting, but please let me know what the next few months are going to look like as soon as you have the grades in.
But just in case, should I try to contact Blarget to help out?
-
Updated the winzip with one more level, and I might be tweaking some of the other ones as I go. I initially had a slightly different plan for Chapter 1 that I didn't want to reveal too much, because it would've been a surprise Descent 1 theme before the modded robots would suddenly start appearing in the first boss's chamber. But that's no longer the plan I have in mind, so I might update or completely redo the other Chapter 1 level from scratch.
Robot sketches are still pending, since my attention has been elsewhere lately. I've at least been trying to balance the robots in terms of weapons, so partial descriptions may be sent to someone who can help me test the actual balance of the entire cast, but I realize the polymodels will probably have to be completed before anyone can truly test them. Uploading one sketch every other day would probably be a bit fast for anyone who could work on the polymodels, but I do want to get the ideas out there, so the winzip will likely be updated every couple days with new sketches and ideas.
As for the plot idea, I might drop a Notepad or Word document into the winzip as well so Scyphi isn't the only one to see it. Anyone else who's interested in helping out, just send me a PM and I'll get you the Dropbox link.
-
Good news. I should be able to help out.
-
Sweetness. :D I'll definitely need you on board to help with more of the mods and that portion of the mission. I added a .TXT file with some specifics of what I had in mind for mods that I didn't want to mention here, along with the rough outline of the storyline. That probably has a ton of plotholes in it, so hopefully Scyphi can help me out there.
Come to think of it, if anyone has an AIM account, I wouldn't mind discussing things over there in a group chat one of these days. It feels a little more convenient because of the pseudo-real time behind an instant messenger, so it could end up being a productive way to trade ideas. Until that's sorted out, of course, you're all free to message me back with suggestions and ideas, or any extra/updated files to throw in.
-
Uh, where can I find this zip?
-
I uploaded it via Dropbox, and I was pretty sure I'd sent you and Alter-Fox a PM with the link. I've just sent the link again, so hopefully this helps.
-
Got it. I do have a yahoo messenger account but I almost never use it. I also have Steam, but again, I rarely use it, especially for messaging. I'm often in the Descent Rangers Mumble and, less frequently but still somewhat often, in the DXX-Rebirth Mumble.
I'm glad I didn't just mindlessly extract it since the levels are not within a HOG.
-
Yeah, something went wrong with a previous attempt to put all the levels into a single .HOG using DLE, where the program crashed and when I started it up again, most of the files were gone from the .HOG. Good thing I had a backup of them, at any rate. I don't know if it was a one-time bug (though I guess I should've reported it sooner either way), but that's why I plan to stick to another program like Yahoma to build the .HOG file as we go.
While on the subject of the levels themselves, any suggestions for how to fix them up would be appreciated. You can also pitch any ideas you'd like to personally add to some of the levels in the winzip, if you want. Plenty of them are unfinished, after all. I'll add my notes on where I planned for some of the unfinished levels to go, along with some additional ideas I might want to add in that haven't really taken off yet. For some of these ideas, I might need a little help in exploiting different parts of the game engine, or both Rebirth and XL because of certain differences.
-
Added the first three polymodel sketches to the winzip, along with a second .TXT file to clear up where I was going with some of the level ideas. A lot of the .RL2 files I included are still far from finished, so that .TXT should clear up where I was going with a lot of them if anyone else would like to design a little bit. You're more than welcome to add on to some of my ideas.
-
Made a couple slight changes to the winzip. There is now a second .RL2 file for one of the boss levels, which could possibly be the hardest level to design now that I think about it. This second design might be a much better shot at the boss chamber itself, but I'm not sure how to set up the surroundings now. Check the updated level design .TXT for my thoughts, because I'd like help on that design and also for getting one of the level gimmicks to work in both Rebirth and D2X-XL where it would function differently in both programs.
I might not have a lot of computer access over the next couple days because I'm going to back up everything that's on it and have it finally upgraded to Windows 7, but in the meantime, I'll try to expand on the polymodel sketches that are already in the folder and complete some more to add to it.
-
I've just upgraded 2 machines (mine and the kid's) to W7 and I was amazed at how quickly and smoothly everything went.
-
Just completed the upgrade today, probably going to need a little time to get used to it. Some things are still moving a little slowly, but that seems to be more of a driver issue than an OS issue. Certain high-detail Descent levels still cause serious slowdowns, but it's been like that ever since my laptop was restored from a nasty crash last May. It'd be great if I could figure out what exactly came back wrong when the tech support at the college I went to restored it, but installing the latest drivers doesn't seem to have changed all that much.
-
Some time ago I formatted and restored a machine and when I did, I used time test* to see what difference every change made on fps, from a clean install of Windows using only what was on the Windows install disc, and Descent 3, I think it was Win98 at the time. The biggest hit to fps was the installation of anti-virus software. However, just about everything I installed brought the fps down at least a little.
For anyone who not familiar with this, in Descent3 there is a demo, it's named something like secret time test that you run with a certain command line switch that records fps through the demo. Then you get a text file with the results.
-
Three weeks later and I'm chipping away at various level maps in the mission, mainly the four boss levels. I've been hit with a complete mental block for the first boss level because I can't come up with any real quirk for it or any way that it could suit the few details I have for the boss, and I'm realizing that this is probably because I've only designated it as a warm-up boss without that many standout qualities (aside from a possible innovative design, anyway). Of all the levels in the set, the first boss level would probably be the hardest for me to conceptualize, so I'll be willing to accept a lot of help in making it.
For most of the other levels that aren't already finished, I might also be taking a different approach in how to design them. I have a lot of set piece rooms in mind and not really any interesting way to connect them together, so what I'm thinking of doing is uploading the rooms or room sequences as separate .RL2 or .BLX files to have anyone else involved in the project take a look and see if they can add anything to put the rooms together into a full level. You're also free to critique the completed levels and suggest any additions to make things interesting or help with the item placement.
At some point, I might start placing powerups and robots into the levels for more of a complete test. The robot polymodels probably won't be there yet since the designs aren't quite done and I still need to get the Construction Kit set up, but when I do include the robots, I would probably still mod a few of the stats, mostly the combat stats and possibly the HP, but I'll have to avoid changing the mass and other stats more closely tied to the polymodel.
-
Ahhhhhh I forgot about this. Thank you, computer science major!
-
For the record, I am still working on the level building side of things. Trying to get acquainted with SDLDevil as a new builder little by little, but I'm also getting better at speedmapping in DLE. It's just a matter of getting the concepts down to put together roughly 24-25 levels.
On the other front, however, I asked Blarget and Jihnsius to help me out with the balanced weapons mod. It should be single- and multiplayer-viable, with the goal of giving every weapon (well, except maybe the Shaker :P) its own niche in both game modes, and is being released alongside my first "official" D2 multiplayer mission. I might've missed my guess and some of these weapons might've been weaker or more overpowered than what I was aiming for, so critique is definitely welcome. Feel free to pop it into Counterstrike as well and see how you fare!