Planet Descent
Community => Mess Hall => Topic started by: Alieo on January 12, 2011, 07:07:29 PM
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I've never owned the first release of D2 for the PC before the definitive collection came out. I was bumming around YouTube to check out the songs on there and found this weird version of Ratzez.
Click the link and skip to 1:49...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x9bjSHmwqs
What IS that wee-woo-wee-woo part? I've never heard that before? Gives me the mental image of a couple of carousel horses climaxing! EEESHHH!
What I want to know is, is this a legitimate version of Ratzez? Have you guys heard this version before, or is this someone's doing?
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This was the version on the original D2 redbook (I'm not sure what version Descent Maximum had). I think Parallax told Ogre to give it something that wasn't in the D1 version :P. It definitely sounds like it was hacked in there.
It gives me the mental image of beige lines -- just like the rest of the song... well they are a bit more whitish there.
Ratzez definitely looks wierder and more surreal compared to any other Descent song.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaesthesia#Sound_.E2.86.92_color_synesthesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaesthesia#Sound_.E2.86.92_color_synesthesia)
Describes it pretty well.
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Okay, so you're saying the wee-woo-wee-woo's are hacked in there? Because, I looked up track times on Google for Ratzez, and they're all around the length of this YouTube video of it (2:29-2:32). The original D2 Redbook Audio I downloaded from, somewhere (I think it was here!) has Ratzez down for 2:14. :-\
Interesting... I'll have to "look" at Ratzez like that sometime!
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No what I meant is it sounds like Ogre (the musician) added it in there without much thought, just to give the D2 version something that wasn't in the D1 version. I doubt that part was intended with the original version of the song (which is probably the D1 version).
In a nutshell it doesn't flow well at that part -- the transitions are almost nonexistent. That's probably why it was taken out in the Infinite Abyss version.
And yeah I had the same reaction as you did when I heard that for the first time. Interesting that it's actually longer than the "extended remix" version. More arguement for those actually being the original versions.
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Ah, gotcha... thanks... I wanted to know because now that I have a better quality of D1's Ratzez, I needed to know if this version was legit so I can mix them together somewhere at the end of D1's Ratzez.
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owww... that was horrible! Didn't know Descent had music that bad!
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Wait you haven't heard it either? I like it because of the surreal beige images. The visual aspect for me is "catchy". I know where you can get that version as a download but I can't find the page on my bookmarks right now. Questionable legality anyway.
I wouldn't say the sound is any worse than the D3 level 5 song (which was totally inappropriate for the story but otherwise good).
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No, I'll probably be crucified for this, lol... but I never cared much for D2, especially the music, and I didn't listen to redbook much, maybe never all the way through, but I don't recall any words in any of them.
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lol @ Willy....
I hated it too at first, but this grew on me... imagine hearing D1's version then THIS at the end. Because, D1 PSX version's may be the longest, it does not have that kicka** climax at the end of, say, the one I'm more familiar with, D2 Definitive Collection. It's just the same old thing... but Imanna mix this in with it right now! Horny carousel horses look out! I'm gonna ride you! LOL JK :P
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I think I've figured out Ogre's lyrics at least at the end, and I have the gist of the beginning (Ogre is the Skinny Puppy vocalist so I know it was him and not Mark Walk). Gramatically incorrect commas, but that's because there were pauses in the vocals.
At the beginning:
I'm not sure but it's something about the speaker bribing you not to kill him. The music immediately afterwards makes it pretty obvious you didn't take the bribe.
At the climax:
"Stand back, everybody!"
"This one's done a bad job, handling my head!"
"Now I don your head!"
"For a shuttle 'hic' ride!"
So I think this voice is supposed to be one of the robots talking, who comes "back from the grave" as a boss at the end of the level. The first two lines at the end are talking to the other robots, the last two are talking to you. The sound at the end sounds a bit like the Red Fatty Boss's "Darth Vader" sound effect and this music was in level 4 (which had that boss). So now I think it's pretty obvious which robot it is as well. The main question is: Which robot died and came back as the Red Fatty boss? :P
Of course, Ogre could just have been on drugs when he wrote it and that would explain everything (he did get addicted to heroin, but I'm not sure if that was before or after Descent).
I actually think Ratzez was one of the better D2 songs, (though that may just be because of the visual component).
The song seems to represent going through D2 level 4, but stops while you're fighting the boss. That's the other reason I don't think the "whistle" part was originally meant to be in the song: it doesn't fit anywhere into the music's "story".
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No, I'll probably be crucified for this, lol... but I never cared much for D2, especially the music, and I didn't listen to redbook much, maybe never all the way through, but I don't recall any words in any of them.
Game was fun but I didn't care for the redbook. The songs weren't bad though.
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@wazzazzle
http://slother31.blogspot.com/2009/08/descent-2-ost-ratzez-lyrics.html
I think this one was just someone's interpretation though. Nothing official.
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Okay, I've completed my mix. I've combined the D1 PSX version of Ratzez with the D2 version of Ratzez.
D1's version began as if it was going to be a "full version" of the song, yet lacks the climax part just before the fade out on D2's version. I simply combined the two and came up with a 4:47 track.
What do you think? Does this sound like it could be the full version of Ratzez that Ogre of Skinny Puppy and Mark Walk intended to release? You be the judge.
http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=297
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Huh, I had never heard this version either. Must agree, it doesn't quite fit. Although, given that the whole song is a bit bizarre to begin with...
I wasn't a big fan of most of the songs on the D2 redbook, but there are some good ones still. :)
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I don't like but a few songs from the Redbook. 3 of them are good. Gunner Down is kinda a 4th and it is great until it gets to the wierd screaming part. >: (
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I'm a bit taken aback that so many of you guys had never heard that part before. It's certainly odd, but it's been part of the D2 Redbook since I can remember.
I actually really enjoy most of the Redbook tracks, and still pop the D2 CD in my car just to listen once in a long while.
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I remember I also heard that part since the first time I played D2.
I agree with Foil, it's odd that a lot of players here didn't pay attention to that part of the song in years! :P
I also Like the D2 redbook a lot.
Well, I'm a huge Descent music fan, so I enjoy everything from D1 Midis and PSX/MAC soundtrack, D2 Redbook & Midis and D3 Retribution and Mercenary soundtracks! :D
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Well, I had never heard it, because I hardly ever played the Redbook soundtracks on D2. I always preferred the midis. And the copy I have in my playlist apparently did not come from the CD like I first thought but somewhere else, so I'd like to think I thereby have an excuse. :P
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I finally got around to listening to the link in the OP ... Yep, that's one of the Redbook tracks. One of the reasons I much preferred to listen to the midi music for Descent 2 ... if I played Descent with music on (I usually turn the music off).
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I prefer the midi myself. the mac version of descent 1 was nice, those 13 tracks they give you on a CD. One or two aren't too bad I guess, but most are pretty nice.
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The MIDI is the best. D2's are my favorite eventhough there's only a few compaired to D1. They never get old.
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I didn't particularly like the level 1 midi but all the others (briefing, credits, title, level 2, level 3, and level 4) were classic. Especially level 3 with its "cool" sound and eerie choirs. That's still one of my favourite songs by Dan Wentz (and it's one of the two songs I think of when I think of Dan Wentz's music -- the other is Two Ton Heavy Thing from Red Faction). The D3 and especially Mercenary music was also very similar to the D2 midis (moreso than to any other kind of Descent music). It would be cool to find out what the song titles were (I could probably just ask when he responds to my Miner Wars contribution).
The Parallax levels themselves in D2 seem to have been made to fit the midis rather than the other way around. For example, the second level of each planet in D2 Counterstrike is always the spookiest one (just like the level 2 music was spookiest).
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There is one part in D1, Level 7 that although sounds a little old school, like Zelda or something, isn't really in the updated version that is on here. I'm assuming the midi still has it, but I have no software to play it.
It's at 2:18. It use to be more clear and took over the sound more.
sort of miss that little tune. use to always look forward to hearing it
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I think I know which part you're talking about, but I haven't seen the D1 level 7 music on here...
(Maybe I could upload the mix that I did in FL Studio a while back).
I don't like but a few songs from the Redbook. 3 of them are good. Gunner Down is kinda a 4th and it is great until it gets to the wierd screaming part. >: (
Lol, yeah that part was wierd. Are they seagulls or bikini models? (That was seriously my first thought when I heard that part). It makes me think of a beach full of sunbathers being invaded by the Juggernaut from D3.
May I ask which D2 Redbook songs were your top 3? (I bet I know at least one of them, and I can guess the other two).
I'm guessing it's Cold Reality, Are You Descent?, and Crush (because they're the ones that are the least wierd).
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This is a remix of Game07 MIDI I did in 2007. I wanted to make it sound more like the old OPL3 version. It's called "Super Hulk Hoedown"
http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=301
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Haunted was always my favourite track. I only owned D2, never D1.
Were the CDs' soundtracks basically the same?
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Nope! Check out this post. I listed links on youtube that you can hear D1 Redbook songs.
http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?topic=616.0
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That's very interesting - thanks!
Is a lot of data there. Might be clearer to make it a table that shows which track appears in which game.
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That track order is my own interpretation of which Redbook songs correlate to the D1 and D2 MIDI songs. I personally refuse to believe that they just made these Redbook songs from scratch. They've HAD to have something to go by, and the correlations I put down I believe match their MIDI counterparts of the D1 MIDI song order. For D2 MIDIs "Game01-Game04," I simply continued D1 numbering and made them "Game23-Game26."
Perhaps this is the list you were looking for:
Descent PSX Levels
List of Songs used in the Playstation version of Descent
Track numbers are from the Descent MAC Redbook Audio
Titles for the tracks are from http://www.moviemusicnow.com/movies/descent (Scroll down past the Descent movie crap and you'll see the track listing at the bottom.)
MENU Virtual Tension (Game02 Lunar Scilab Remix)
BRIEFING (Silence) (Computer-read briefing statements)
CREDITS T-05 Ether in the Air (Credits Remix)
EXIT T-04 The Escape (Exiting the Mine BGM, cinematic version)
Score screen after each level: Outerlimits (Briefing Music Theme Remix)
LEVEL 01 T-07 Virtual Tension (Game02 Lunar Scilab Remix)
LEVEL 02 T-02 Hydraulic Pressure (Game18 Miranda Mine Remix)
LEVEL 03 T-08 Time for the Big Guns (Game22 Neptune Storage Depot Remix)
LEVEL 04 Not That Button! (Game07 Mercury Core Remix)
LEVEL 05 T-14 A Big Problem (Game14 Gandymede CO2 Mine Remix)
LEVEL 06 T-02 Primitive Rage (Descent Main Title Theme)
LEVEL 07 T-12 Industrial Accident (Game06 Mercury Solar Lab Remix)
LEVEL 08 Haunted (Instrumental Remix) (Not featured on the Descent MAC Soundtrack) http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=300
LEVEL 09 Rusty (Not featured on the Descent MAC Soundtrack) http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=290
LEVEL 10 T-09 Mystery Metal (Game03 Lunar Military Base Remix)
LEVEL 11 T-06 Robotic Menace (Game12 Callisto Tower Colony Remix)
LEVEL 12 T-07 Virtual Tension (Game02 Lunar Scilab Remix)
LEVEL 13 Ratzez (Not featured on the Descent MAC Soundtrack) http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=291
LEVEL 14 T-12 Industrial Accident (Game06 Mercury Solar Lab Remix)
LEVEL 15 T-07 Virtual Tension (Game02 Lunar Scilab Remix)
LEVEL 16 T-08 Time for the Big Guns (Game22 Neptune Storage Depot Remix)
LEVEL 17 T-12 Industrial Accident (Game06 Mercury Solar Lab Remix)
LEVEL 18 Not That Button! (Game07 Mercury Core Remix)
LEVEL 19 T-14 A Big Problem (Game14 Gandymede CO2 Mine Remix)
LEVEL 20 T-02 Hydraulic Pressure (Game18 Miranda Mine Remix)
LEVEL 21 T-02 Primitive Rage (Descent Main Title Theme)
LEVEL 22 T-12 Industrial Accident (Game06 Mercury Solar Lab Remix)
LEVEL 23 Rusty (Not featured on the Descent MAC Soundtrack) http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=290
LEVEL 24 T-09 Mystery Metal (Game03 Lunar Military Base Remix)
LEVEL 25 T-06 Robotic Menace (Game12 Callisto Tower Colony Remix)
LEVEL 26 T-08 Time for the Big Guns (Game22 Neptune Storage Depot Remix)
LEVEL 27 T-12 Industrial Accident (Game06 Mercury Solar Lab Remix)
LEVEL S1 T-02 Hydraulic Pressure (Game18 Miranda Mine Remix)
LEVEL S2 T-08 Time for the Big Guns (Game22 Neptune Storage Depot Remix)
LEVEL S3 Not That Button! (Game07 Mercury Core Remix)
On the MAC Soundtrack, but not featured in the PSX version:
T-13 Overdrive (Game09 Mars Military Dig Remix)
HIDDEN on the PSX disc, but not a song in ANY level is the FULL version of Glut:
http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=295
I'm 110% confident in the level-song association track order of these songs. The PSX version of D1 is what I grew up with and is what I went out and bought after trying the demo on my aunt's "new" Windows 95 computer in the summer of '96. D1 demo came with her computer. I never owned the PC version of D1 until 2000 and I was shocked to find out that the songs didn't loop after level 5! lol!
As a side note: I don't know the logic in the developers' order in the songs. They seem to be randomly placed around after level 13, yet they only use Haunted and Ratzez once, and use Industrial Accident SEVERAL times when they could have replaced one or two of those with the hidden Glut track that's on there. But, everytime I ago to level 25, I always am reminded of Robotic Menace, not necessarily the Game12 version of it, but the remix Allister Brimble did of it. It really matches being on a "Pluto Outpost." Also, it could be that that song is just my first stone-ground impression of the level because like I said, I grew up with the PSX version.
Another note, The PSX version had cleaner loops of the songs. Yes, they would repeat in-level, but the songs weren't extended to seven minute songs like in the MAC version. They were generally 3-5 minutes each with no excess.
As for Level 13's Ratzez, the reason I think that the PSX version cut out the "WEE WOO" part of Ratzez in the PSX version is because it gets quieter in the end, although, in that Ratzez I have the link to that says "PSX Ratzez," I leveled out the volume towards the end because when it comes to Descent music, I am beyond a psychotic obsessive compulsive perfectionist! LOL
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You've done an awesome job researching this. I love that.
I'm gonna have to break out Descent 2 and give it a spin. Is D2X-XL the best way to go? Should I get any further enhancements to get some extra visual polish?
I saw an interesting vid on youtube of someone firing the superlasers in D2 with white vapour trails behind them.
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If you want the best graphics (including those vapour/smoke trails, etc.), it's definitely D2X-XL.
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Thanks for your advice.
Wish I could put it into practice right away but will wait for Friday when this contract law essay is submitted.
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I hate it when pesky 'ol school gets in the way of Descent! I just started back yesterday, and just yesterday got D2X-XL operating beautifully.
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You guys are making me want to jump back in old-school Descent again. :)
I think I will.
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Hey, it's entirely worth it!
As for ports, I'm a purist with many of my games, so the only thing you'll usually hear me recommending is DXX-Rebirth (http://dxx-rebirth.com)
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Is DXX-Rebirth more focused on the "vintage" aspect and compatibility with modern OS's than the OOHs and AHHs of D2X-XL?
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Pretty much. While there's a few new features here and there and a new OpenGL renderer it's still pretty much the descent you had back in 1995
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It can also boil down to what your computer can handle. I love D2X-XL, but it is a bit of a resource hog at times, and it can't even begin to run on my laptop. So instead I use Rebirth instead. Which is great too, I've come to realize through this arrangement that some levels were just meant to be played the classic way. :)
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This is going against the direction of this topic as far as appreciating the vintage aspects of D1, which I MOST definitely do... but, do y'all know if anyone has converted the entire D1 hog to a D3 version?
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but, do y'all know if anyone has converted the entire D1 hog to a D3 version?
I don't think that's possible, the formats between the two games are just way too different. Sure, converting the HOG to HOG2 would be easy but Descent III probably wouldn't be able to do anything with the file.
Now, people have recreated bits of Descent 1/2 levels and the like, but they usually play different
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Yeah... it would probably have to be done manually to be done right. I've seen a D3 rendition someone did years back on Lunar Outpost... but I've been away from the online Descent community for about 8 years so I was wondering if someone had made something in that time. :P
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The geometry methods are too foreign to permit migrating the D1 stuff to D3. It's been discussed a few times. D1 and D2 use cube geometry. D3 does not and there is no means to convert the D1/D2 formats to D3.
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... And to make things worse, walls and doors are handled waaaay different on D1/2 compared to D3.
On D3, doors, grates and stuff are actually 3D objects (sometimes even carved on level's structure) while on D1/2 door and grates are no more than 2-sided flat planes with the corresponding textures on them.
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There is a converter to convert D1/ D2 levels to D3. It works, but there is a lot of work to finish the level. No doors, many faces flipped the wrong way, and it makes the whole level one big room. Still, if you wanted to re-create d1 levels authentically in D3, it would save having to create all the rooms from scratch. You would have to figure out what to do with doors, as in D3 a door is a room with volume, so you would have to create them from scratch, and remove some space from the room they attach to.
And as Pumi said, the grates in D1/ D2 are 2d textures. I guess you could put a 2d texture with transparency in D3, but that would be pretty lame compared to actually constructing a grate in 3d faces. Check out the grates in my IceFactor (http://www.prepare4descent.net/descentiapedia/IceFactor) level.
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Theoretically, it's possible, it's just that no one wants to take the effort to do it. Even with the converter, just building one level would be a lot of effort.
In fact, now that I think about it, the Lunar Outpost level Alieo is remembering I think was made with the converter, and it's dimensions were off (aka, the tunnels were all a bit too big). I've seen one of Ahaway Gate (D2 lvl 1) that was made into a D3 level the same way that had the same issue. Among other things.
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Also all the robots sound like squids.
Was fixed in the D2 conversion though.
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Can't somebody take the converter and modify it to reduce the size of everything by 50%?
btw on a side note, contrary to popular belief that the original self destruct alarm is not in D3...IT IS!!! Go get discovered by one of the cameras on D3 Lv 11. The sound file name is simply named "siren". I've played those converted levels and none of them have the classic alarm.
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The problem with the level converter is that it is not a RDL/RL2 -> D3L converter. The converter (Something like LevelView if I remember correct) would export the level to a format, that while it isn't D3L, it can be opened in D3Edit. And given what happens to the level (flipped faces), it sounds like it doesn't do a very good job of it. A newer converter, written from scratch might be the better solution, but you'll still probably run into issues.
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@OP it makes me think of the flower place in the first Paper Mario