Planet Descent
Community => Mess Hall => Topic started by: VANGUARD on November 08, 2013, 12:37:49 PM
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I thank everyone for their input on a job search, and what to do. I will continue to look at craigs list and/or indeed.com. In fact, I did find one that pays pretty well that is a direct hire, one I found on indeed.com
So thanks to you guys, maybe I found something. However, I ask once more for some advice. I have made an appeal to talk with a judge on why I should get unemployment money. I have prepared a note on what I plan to say. I have the following:
I have been working with Pro Staff, mainly the Chanhassen office for about four years. Throughout those years, we have had an original agreement. That agreement was that I was willing to work for no less than $11 an hour, first shift only & no more than 25 or so miles away, unless the pay was quite well, like $15, $16+ an hour. For the past four years, this agreement was never voided, at least while I was working with the Chanhassen office.
However recently, I have been offered jobs from both the Plymouth & Edina office about jobs that pay less than $11, some being on second shift, and some being 45+ minutes away.
I naturally turned them down, being this was never part of the agreement.
However, now I see myself being denied unemployment. How & why did this agreement get voided? Why was I never even mentioned about such a change? If a such change did occur & I was suppose to start accepting any jobs, at least I would have thought about it more before simply rejecting the job. And if I have no say in pay & location, then why even bother listing what I am looking for?
According to unemployment, I should be able to work anywhere in the metro. They don't care if it's horrible pay & so far away. They don't care, like with another temp agency, that I drove an F-250 Ford, a gas guzzler. I feel like if I go along with this appeal, it's simply s*it & giggles.
And according to Pro Staff, they need jobs filled. So between what unemployment & my temp agency said, I doubt ANYTHING I say will allow me the unemployment.
You have ideas? Thoughts? prayers? I'm sure I will be well taken care of. If I lose the appeal, I will bounce back up.
Oh, and there's three issues pending, basically all the same. If I lose one, I'm sure I'll lose 'em all.
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In my experience with legal employment issues (my wife and I have had legal issues with employers before), the rule has always been: Documentation wins.
Do you have any discussion about those agreements in an email anywhere? If you can show that the temp agency accepted (or even didn't reject) your conditions for the jobs, that could go a LONG way in demonstrating your case.
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I have no documents at all. I don't suppose Pro Staff would be willing to give me some now? In other words, I am sure that I lost already
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Might be worth a shot to ask them for your employment records and notes. Who knows, one of their people at the first office might have noted the constraints in their system.
If not, go with what you prepared.
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I bet temp agencies dont give you these documents to make it harder for us to win,
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Honestly, most temp agency staff don't care either way. It's just a job to them, too.
Just drop by and ask one of the they can give you a printout of your records, and ask nicely if they can print out any notes they have about your preferences. It's worth a shot.
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I agree. Hardly anyone cares. It's $$$ in their pocket. that's how it works. Thank you. I'll do and get what I can, and wait for the appeal on Monday, the 18th.
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You don't need to tell them what it's for ::).
Good luck. I hope it works out for you.
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True, but how do you ask without them wondering why you want the original document? They are very well aware of unemployment denying me.
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First of all, if a JUDGE is going to see that note, better let me take a jab at... not so much grammar, but... the way you've worded things. Gotta sound official.
Your original note:
I have been working with Pro Staff, mainly the Chanhassen office for about four years. Throughout those years, we have had an original agreement. That agreement was that I was willing to work for no less than $11 an hour, first shift only & no more than 25 or so miles away, unless the pay was quite well, like $15, $16+ an hour. For the past four years, this agreement was never voided, at least while I was working with the Chanhassen office.
However recently, I have been offered jobs from both the Plymouth & Edina office about jobs that pay less than $11, some being on second shift, and some being 45+ minutes away.
I naturally turned them down, being this was never part of the agreement.
However, now I see myself being denied unemployment. How & why did this agreement get voided? Why was I never even mentioned about such a change? If a such change did occur & I was suppose to start accepting any jobs, at least I would have thought about it more before simply rejecting the job. And if I have no say in pay & location, then why even bother listing what I am looking for?
Your note edited:
Dear Judge {Justice's Last Name}:
I have been employed with Pro Staff for about four years with the majority of that time being spent at the Chanhassen office. During that time, Pro Staff was willing to employ me for no less than $11 per hour, first shift, and to be no more than 25 miles away {Replace these words in this bracket and specify WHAT is away. Away from home? Away from the Home office? Be more specific.} unless the pay compensated for a commute greater than 25 miles from {Again, replace these words in this bracket with the same word or specification as the previous bracket.} at a rate of $15-16 per hour. {Better have this in writing, and disclose it with the letter!} For the past four years, this agreement was never voided during my tenure at the Chanhassen office. However, I have recently been offered employment from both Pro Staff's Plymouth & Edina offices about jobs that pay less than $11, some being on second shift, and some being {45+ minutes... keep it uniform... do you want to identify the distances through travel time, or through miles like you did a few sentences ago? Keep it uniform so the judge doesn't think you're trying to swindle him. Replace the text inside this bracket with a measurement of distance, preferably one that states the distance in miles. Example: "greater than 25 miles"} away {specify away from what? Home? Be more specific.}. Naturally, I turned them down as this was never part of the original agreement {between whom? You and the courts, or you and your employer? Specify in this letter. Be specific.}.
I now see myself being denied unemployment. How and why did this agreement {again, specify who it was an agreement between; you and the employer, or you and the courts?} get voided? {If this was between you and your employer, the judge will not have an answer for you.} Why was I never informed about such a change? If such a change did occur, and I was supposed to start accepting any employment opportunity, I would have definitely accepted those offers rather than rejecting them. I respectfully ask the court to reconsider the ruling of "denial" regarding my unemployment.
Respectfully,
{Vangard... lol... yeah you'd kill it if you signed it that... haha!}
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Honestly, if you don't have anything in writing as far as agreements from your employer, the courts will not side with you. Courts are all about proving who's right or wrong with tangible evidence, such as documents where these agreements are written. If such documents do not exist, you have no way of proving your case otherwise.
Do you have a plan B? Would it be possible at all to retreat back to your folks? I know you're out and about, but maybe it would serve you best to start fresh. What other options are you considering if you cannot find employment?
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I probably should have added that this is over the phone. I think I am able to fax some information, but as far as talking with the judge, it's only by the phone. I like your additions in what you put Texace.
Problem is, I have no documents. Even documents from the other temp agency does not list my preference. It's possible to call them once it's a weekday again, but I'm not sure how well that would work.
I have gone an appeal before, but what I believe was discrimination. They fired me with no real reason. I lost the case.
Maybe I made mention that I will be out & about, or you're saying that, assuming I am. I'm not. I've been with my mother all along, except for a short time with my sister a while back. My mom has paid for my Oct bills & may very well have to pay for the Nov. bills.
There is something going on. I believe the LORD is ending things in my life & at some point, giving me something better. Temp agencies like Pro Staff only sends me to temp jobs. lol, that's a temp agency for you because that's part of their title. I want something permanent. I believe HE will bless me with something soon, whether it's something I find off indeed.com, or Craigslist, or door to door. I haven't really worried much, even though I have had no income (on my own) for the past 5-6 weeks. I'm going to Quizno's soon as well. I am not buying games, or movies, clothes (unless needed), I am not buying anything except for gas for the car, personal hygiene stuff, water, and the occasional restaurant like Quizno's or maybe another.
I felt this was going on, about Pro Staff coming to an end before all this even happened, before the denial of unemployment, before the turn of the new year. And here it is. The LORD is doing something, and I must do my best to have faith in HIM and want HIS will to be done.
If I have a chance of winning the appeal, something will happen. Their change of heart, I have the right documents, something. If I lose, then I shall have faith that HE has something else, something on a grand scale.
This is plan A, so to speak. There is something else going on as well. My mothers friend will have to help on a payment, or help my mom with her bills. And by helping with her bills, my mother can help on mine. One day, I'll be on here saying that I have a job again & how great everything turned out.
Thank you all for your advice. If I never even asked, I would be going through this with no documents, or anything of the sort. I'd be hung up (as opposed to kicked out of court) in "3 minutes" lol.
Thanks all :)
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True, but how do you ask without them wondering why you want the original document? They are very well aware of unemployment denying me.
Yeah, but I don't think they would deny you the documents unless you give them a specific reason to. If you just go in and ask for them without a reason, they should give them to you without questions unless there's some sort of company policy about needing a reason to pick up your own documents. They have to follow the company rules too.
And on the same note, I highly doubt they can legally deny you anything that has your signature at the bottom. But I don't live in the extreme-capitalism environment of the US...
And if the company denies you the documents you need for your appeal, then ask the court!
To add on to what Texace said, I think you should change the last few sentences in your note from questions to statements in order to keep the tone of your letter neutral, and add an extra line at the bottom re-stating what you're asking the courts to do for you. And once you've got the documents go through the note again to be absolutely certain everything matches. Even down to the types of units you use.
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Treat it like a research paper you'd write for school. COVER EVERYTHING, in detail, and leave nothing out, even if it seems irrelevant.
Beyond that, that's the best advice I can give you, I don't have much experience with law. :-\
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I don't think unemployment cares anything about the agreement with the temp agency, the only fact relevant to them is that you were offered a job, and turned it down. Distance and rate of pay might be relevant, but sounds like they already determined the job offer is within their guidelines of an acceptable offer for you. Remember, the unemployment office worker's job is to give out as little money as possible.
What you need to do is convince the judge that the job offer was unacceptable.
I could be wrong, though, so I would still mention that you weren't expecting this sort of offer, for the reason's you mentioned, but my opinion is that you need to be more strident in explaining why you turned this offer down.
I naturally turned them down, being this was never part of the agreement.
However, now I see myself being denied unemployment. How & why did this agreement get voided? Why was I never even mentioned about such a change? If a such change did occur & I was suppose to start accepting any jobs, at least I would have thought about it more before simply rejecting the job. And if I have no say in pay & location, then why even bother listing what I am looking for?
Put yourself in the judges position... Is this a valid reason for turning down a work offer? Did you really turn this offer down just because you felt it wasn't in keeping with an agreement you made with the temp agency?
Or was it because the job was too far, and didn't pay enough?
What are the relevant unemployment compensation laws?
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I know we're never guaranteed a good paying job, but to accept a low paying job that is 45+ minutes away never works. Sooner or later, you will quit, or kill yourself. My own mother came up with something, whether it gets me anywhere or not, is turn the table. Assuming I have no, or can't get any documents on an original agreement, that I should ask if they have any documents with my signature on it that states I'm accepting a low paying job that is far away.
If I am suppose to accept anything, then why would they update things in their computers? I say, "$11+, no less." they say, "We'll update our computers."
I said that a few times, then I get calls for $10 an hour, calls on second shift. why update them if I am suppose to accept anything that comes though?"
One thing is certain, whether I win or lose, I am not working for this temp agency anymore, and may not for any other temp agencies. If I do, I will be firm and tell them, "direct hire, good pay.", that I won't accept anything else. They can't deny unemployment then, because I haven't worked with them yet.
It's like insurance. They love you until there's a claim. They love $$$. I get it. That's all it is. It's $$$. If they did ANYTHING that meant losing money, they wouldn't do it. That's why Pro Staff and other temp agencies want me to take anything, so they can get money, and as long as I have no job, they would either lose money or deny my unemployment. I feel a strong urge to fight, whether I win or lose. It may do no good, but maybe I should also report the temp agency to the BBB. not that reporting them would give me my money back. of course not, but maybe less people would use the temp agency. Maybe enough complaints can turn the table.
update: I understand that I may lose, NO MATTER WHAT. Another thought I had was this, Pro Staff offered me a $15 an hour job, data entry. They later called and said I wasn't suitable for the job, but later on, they offered me a $10 an hour data entry in Edina, which is slightly farther away. I said I wasn't interested in that, and they are denying me unemployment because I didn't accept that one.
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Van I think your missing the point. Any agreement you made with the staffing company, is between you and the staffing company. You are going before a judge to appeal a decision made by the unemployment office, not the staffing company.
Right?
Or am I missing something here?
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I think you got it. I believe someone from the temp agency will be on the line as well. Remember, this is over the phone. I won't be in a court. I do believe, like last time, the judge will also call someone from the temp agency before beginning.
I need to find some way to say I am eligible for the money. Unemployment says as long as it's in the metro, and I am (way on the far west edge of it though), I am suppose to accept the jobs. The temp agency says they need to fill in positions.
I had spoken to the temp agency about making no less than $11, so on and so forth. they say they are updating the info. Now if I am to accept any job, what's the purpose of updating any information? why don't they just come out and say "sorry, we need you to accept any position."
according to what is going on, I have declined positions for being under $11, being 45+ minutes away, and the wrong shift. As a result, this has declined my unemployment. here's the odd part. One office, the one I use 99-100% of the time, has not bothered me with these sort of low paying jobs. Two other offices has started to call, and as a result, I am being denied unemployment.
I am hoping to convince the judge that I am only refusing work that the temp agency brings me that is below the agreement.
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You are going before a judge to appeal a decision made by the unemployment office, not the staffing company.
Right?
Yes, but the decision by the unemployment office was made based on a statement from the staffing company. If he can argue (or better yet, demonstrate with documentation) that their statement does not account for the employment agreement, he has a case.
Keep us posted, Van. I'm personally curious to see how this turns out.
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I've looked into it more deeply and found out that I was right with what I said before (well I'm still not 100% sure but I'm 99% sure now). So go get those documents, whatever it takes :P.
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I have read through the documents very closely, everything that has issues, why I'm not eligible, etc.
There is nothing I can do to win this case. What they have me down as ineligible goes against what I can say. They believe I can go to a job 45+ minutes away for $10 an hour. They say that since it's a job Pro Staff needs to fill, I need to fill it, or be denied unemployment. The ONLY thing I can think of, the ONLY thing, is that they offered me a $13+ an hour job, and a $15 an hour job, and later told me, it wasn't a suitable job for me, HOWEVER, another job like it, farther perhaps, and less pay, was suitable for me.
This is a matter of preference. I prefer $13+ but they still have every right to throw out a $10 an hour job.
One office has been good, the other two that came by recently are the ones that got this whole unemployment thing to be denied. I have been watching "Quincy" episodes where he may have evidence or what not, but still have people say he won't make it in court & win.
My own mother was in a lawsuit. The hospital(s) that treated my dad was poor. They had things in wrong, bed sores, etc, that was X-rayed, true facts that did not make the doctors look good at all. My mom lost the case. All the facts and evidence, the proof, standing for what is right, and no money.
I do not believe there's a reason to go on with this case. The more you guys talk about what is needed, and the more from what I hear from my own mother, and what I have gathered on my own, all I see is that judge has some meat at the end of the fishing pole, and they're waving in in front of me.
If Pro Staff offered a job, and I took it, and something went completely haywire and it was Pro Staff's fault, maybe. or it's $12 an hour, but my checks are smaller than they should be, or said rude things to the employer. But Pro Staff is doing their job. And I think I am onto my own now. I have a staffing agency that deals mostly on permanent work. And if they screw with me, I will cut them off too.
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There is one more thing that you might consider, if it's true for you, which it may or may not be.
It has to do with a possible reason for why you might have made that agreement in the first place.
If you accepted a job that was $10 an hour, with a 45 minute commute to and back each day, would you be making enough money to cover all of your needs? Including buying enough gas to drive for at least an hour and a half every day... I hear gas can be expensive ;). if the answer is no, even disregarding any savings you already have, you probably have a case.
But then, you've probably thought of this already...
If it will cover your needs, you might as well accept the job at least for a little while, while you search for something new. It would be easier than fighting to get your unemployment back.
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I may be able to do it, with very little to spare. As much as I don't like being on unemployment, it does pay to be on it more so than some $10 an hour job that is 45+ minutes away. The judge, most likely will think I can do it.
Between friends, family, we can see the faults and reason with it. We can say what is suitable and what isn't. What unemployment sees is that i will be at some job, and not collect unemployment. We're certainly not talking family. My mom & I'm sure my sister, and any one else would agree that going too far for too pay is STUPID and POINTLESS. But unemployment doesn't look at this personally. They don't take that into consideration. They don't see the heartache and the stress. They see, "move this person to this location for X money. person refuses to work at location, so deny his unemployment money."
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To be fair, they probably don't have the time and energy to, Vanguard. I'm sure they have lots of other people claiming for unemployment that they have to deal with too.
Still, I sympathize with ya Vanguard, and wish I could suggest something to help you out. :(
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I don't know about in the US, but in Canada if the job you're taking would pay less than social assistance you have a right to be on social assistance as well as earning money from the job. But social assistance pay is calculated based on the bare minimum for your basic needs up here. From what you say, in the States, unemployment pay seems a little bit more generous.
And there are some more complexities, too.
Sometimes the only option is to swallow your pride and do it, though. At least, working through a temp agency, you know it's going to be temporary.
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Van,
I understand when you say the case may go against you. And it might, but let me repeat this:
It's worth a shot. Don't give up, take the shot.
Don't give up the case because it seems hopeless. When my wife had an issue with an employer due letting her go due to a health issue about ten years ago, we had to go to an arbitrator. I didn't think we had a solid case... but when the arbitrator heard the facts, he sided with us. It's worth a try; go for it.
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Kais, sounds similar here. But first he has to get approved for the unemployment compensation. Here it's based on a percentage of your average pay. Then you can take a lower paying job, or part time, and that is deducted from your benefit check, but since your benefit is a total amount, you will get checks for a longer period of time.
And Foil is right, doesn't hurt to try.
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There are very hard things to say on here, because it may break one of the rules on here. I'm also concerned about flame wars. I'll do my best not to cross any lines. I've been thinking about this and have come to a conclusion that I feel more at peace by canceling the appeal. At first, I was geared up and ready. I gathered information by what you said, and felt more armor put on me. But afterwards, I felt bothered and disturbed. Let's not mix that with worry and doubtful. Something major is happening in my life, and I believe that there is a reason for such things. I lost my job & unemployment. I have lost all money and fully dependent on my mother to pay bills. This isn't what I want, but it's not my choice. If I can dare say it, the LORD is doing something here. I know HE is. There is a major reset button that has been pushed. Pro Staff is gone, and if possible, I will never have to see unemployment again. I am on the verge of starting a new life, with a better paying job, a permanent position. I know it's hard to understand. I want that money. It would be great to see the unemployment money fall into my laps. It costs nothing to make an appeal, but I guess you could say, gut-wise, I don't feel right at all doing this.
I thank everyone that gave me advice. If this happens again, and I feel the necessity to take action, i shall remember what you all said, and I will make you all proud. The most damage I can do, is not work through Pro Staff.
Thank you again
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Personally, I understand what you're saying Vanguard, and by all means, if you don't feel comfortable doing it like that, then by all means, no one's making you do it. Do what you feel is best. ;D
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You're in a corner. It's time to analyze your situation. First of all, don't feel bad. You're not alone in your situation. We're about the same age, and I, too, live with my folks. It's alright (I guess) but I'm thinking outside the box and trying to start a business. I'm not saying everyone in our situation should start a business, but everyone in our situation needs to get creative.
Make a list of positive attributes and negative attributes about yourself and write them down. Also, do a search for typical job interview questions. How would you answer those questions? Next, turn every negative into a re-phrased positive. When you're applying for jobs, you're selling yourself as a product for that prospective company to use. Let's say one of your weaknesses is that you're disorganized, chronically late, and lazy. Instead, turn those into positive attributes by rephrasing it as you're good at multi-tasking, attentive to details, and careful. Tweak it to make it favor you. Finally, when submitting resumes online, include in the word document "key words" that is relevant to the job in a space at the bottom of one of the pages in the smallest font and in white so it can't be seen by human eyes unless highlighted, yet, the computer at the prospective employer will pick up these key words. It's a technology-driven world nowadays; you've gotta find ways to fool the system.
And that's another thing: The system. Question it. Question EVERYTHING. From our ways of life, to the economy, to what life's expectations of us are. Get in a mental helicopter and look down at humanity; everyone is in a rat race. Everyone has a prerogative (albeit, some go about it more zombie-like than others) and everyone cares about different things at different stages in life. Focus more on what YOU care about rather than what SOCIETY expects you to care about. Look at the big picture. Notice the tiny gears that make everything in this giant mechanized device function. Find where you fit as a gear, or leave the mechanized device and find a way to make it successfully on your own independent of "the system" and "the grind" and "the greater mechanized device" that entraps almost all of us.
I've realized in life that our system of being is designed to keep us at the same income levels unless we strike gold or have some crazy idea to make it work outside of the rigged system. Any Vegas gambler will tell you that the only way to truly win is to not bet against the house. Don't play. Make your own rules. Be innovative and inventive. BRAINSTORM. You can do it.
I sleep now!
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I believe in the LORD that HE can bless me with a higher paying job. I am also thankful that today, to my surprise, I got the first two weeks of unemployment. The next 8 weeks are being declined, but I was a bit surprised to see two weeks in.
I have some money again. I can pay a bill or two, get some stuff I need. I am happy :)
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Yay. :D