Planet Descent
Community => Mess Hall => Topic started by: Alieo on April 18, 2012, 12:03:03 PM
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Dick Clark has passed away this morning. There will no longer be anyone around to ring in the new year, thus 2012 will go on forever. Rest in Peace, Dick!
http://news92fm.com/241749/dick-clark-82-dies-after-massive-heart-attack/ (http://news92fm.com/241749/dick-clark-82-dies-after-massive-heart-attack/)
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Hold on there, turbo.
By Hume's law, this is not necessarily the case. For just because the new year came in upon his ringing in of it does not mean that in the future, without his ringing in of it, will it not come. Just because we have knowledge of what is or has been does not mean we can use it to derive what shall be!!
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I'm sure he is just kidding, only to give news about Dick Clark passing away, but for the sake of the topic,
The world existed before he was born, so him dying won't change anything.
Also, the Lord has mentioned, no one here on earth will know when the Earth shall come to an end.
In other words, to ALL on this earth, it will be a "surprise"
..............who's Dick Clark? sounds like someone I should know.
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Oh, but I tell ye it is NO coincidence that the man who rings in New Year's Day dies the same year the Mayans predicted "the end of life as we know it!" The end times are coming! Stock up on RTEs, buy a bomb shelter, build multiple rockets and arks! This is the big one!
Personally, since I AM an alien, I suppose I'll just take off on my flying saucer and go back to where I came from.
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Well it's the end of his life as he knows it. Not to be harsh or anything. I think I'll go eat his corpse.
You know, not being human and all, it'll be pretty fun to watch as your whole tyrranic species snuffs it; but I will kinda miss everyone else in this community.
Ah well, I'll find a way to stay in touch with Alieo and any other survivors.
Hey, maybe whatever sort of calamity will happed causes an ice age, and then I can finally go everywhere and explore the world. And gloat over Alieo's frozen UFO from beneath my thick white fur, but that's another story.
Also, you mean the man who rings in the new year for the US, which technically means that it's only the end of AMERICA.
On a TOPIC THAT IS DEFINITELY RELATED TO THIS ONE AND WILL NEVER CAUSE THIS THREAD TO DERAIL, I like the sarcasm that infuses every fiber of cellulose and/or synthetic polymer in this thread.
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Give me 3 good signs the end of the world will occur on 12.21.12. Give me 5 signs, 10, man, why not 2012 signs.
I give you one that says it won't end. The Lord says "no human, not even Jesus Christ knows the last day."
and what is this, 'prepare for the end with getting supplies.' the end is the end. It's like saying, the movie is ending, grab the popcorn and drinks. what's the point? The end is the end.
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All kidding aside. Personally, I'm not afraid of dying. None of us "die," unless we commit an act so evil and never seek redemption, then it's down to the icy pits of hell we go (I believe hell is cold, not hot, because love is warm, atoms move fast when heated and speed up where as hell is like, zero Kelvin, all mater completely stops, and it is so cold it burns). We just transition into the spiritual realm. Christian beliefs or not, I believe in reincarnation and that we better ourselves and our spirits from the decisions we make in our daily lives and several lifetimes. Yeah, no one knows when it'll really be, but I am damn curious to find out what happens on 12/21/12. By the way, Nostradamus says it'll be in 3797. With that said, yes, we will be around for the rapture, some way or another. Or, we may be still waiting for our chance to bat in the dugout and be watching from the other side.
For the record, I'm not an atheist or agnostic. I consider myself "pan-religious." Instead of being a part of one religion and saying all the other beliefs are wrong and they're going to eternal damnation for not being on my path, I believe ALL religions are correct. I view religion as a giant circle maze with all these paths zig-zagging to get to the center, which is the deity. They may have different ways to get to the center, but they all get there.
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how is it all religions are correct? That's like saying some believe 2+2 is 4, while others say 2+2 equals 6, some say 7, some say 4.23 and yet, all are right.
I'm not here to convert people or preach, but I hate hearing "all religions are correct". makes NO sense in my mind.
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Using Alieo's reasoning, you could easily reason that all politicians (or candidates) are correct. You could pick any war (past, present or future) and claim that both sides are right. You could claim the world is flat and is the center of the universe then also claim the world is round and orbits a sun in an outer region of the galaxy ... And be right both times.
That way of reasoning isn't a reasoning of truth, it's a reasoning of convenience, so that the person doesn't have to actually make a choice.
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I agree with Alieo sort of.
I don't think it matters what you believe in, only that you believe in something bigger than yourself. And if what you believe is morally wrong, you'll pay for it after you die... but I'm not sure I believe in heaven or hell.
But I have strange beliefs anyway so don't listen to me. I mean, I don't see why the creationist/evolutionist debate needs to even exist as a debate. I mean, christians have a great way of explaining why both sides are probably right.
I agree with Vanguard about how trying to predict the Christian rapture is ridiculous. But: and what is this, 'prepare for the end with getting supplies.' the end is the end. It's like saying, the movie is ending, grab the popcorn and drinks. what's the point? The end is the end.
Some of us don't like to waste our popcorn just because the movie is over. Some of us would rather finish it later than have it thrown into a landfill. You know what Yawgmoth says: Waste not, want not.
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I personally believe all religions typically have the right ideas (aka are on the right track) that varies from religion to religion, so in a way I see where Alieo's coming from. I do NOT believe they are ALL entirely correct, though, but then we start getting into matters of personal opinion/beliefs.
Personally, and some may disagree with me on this, but I'd rather see everybody be involved in a religion of some sort than none at all. It wouldn't be the most desirable outcome, no, and that's probably where I would set the bar at it's lowest, but to me, to be involved in a religion is better than to not be religious at all.
Of course, that also depends on how you define "religion."
Also, not to jinx things or anything because we're actually doing pretty good thus far, but I would like to just remind everyone continuing this topic to be careful not to start any flame wars or the such.
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Even if I did believe in the Rapture part of the Christian mythos (and I don't believe it literally, I believe it was a metaphor but that's beside the point), but even if I did believe it, I think it's entirely possible for humanity to destroy itself in many other ways before that time comes.
Don't forget it was the Mayans who predicted this -- not the Christians -- who knows, maybe they were predicting the Mayan equivalent of the rapture (if they had an equivalent) in which case Christians shouldn't be worried at all :P.
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Actually, according to archeologists, it was far more likely that the Mayans simply stopped on 2012 for no other reason other than they didn't see a reason at the time to go any further (I mean it was still many centuries off for them), not so much because they thought the world would end in that year, much less specifically on the date 12/21.
At any rate, I honestly and fully expect that 12/21/2012 will end up be a rather ordinary day, and the world will spin on well after that date.
In other news, Techpro and I were watching an episode of classic Star Trek ("The Corbomite Manuever") and thought a line from said episode would be fitting for this end-of-the-world/religion discussion:
"You have been examined.
Your ship must be destroyed.
We make assumption you have a deity or deities
or some such beliefs which comfort you.
We therefore grant you
10 Earth time periods known as minutes
to make preparations."
...but I post that for no reason other than we both thought it'd be funny. :P
BTW, Kaiaatsel, it's worth noting that not all Christians believe in the principal of rapture.
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Bottom line, you have to look at what's right and what's wrong. Sure, not every religion is 100% pure and do deviate into immoral areas (extremists exist in every creed), but 100% of them ALL lead to a single deity or deities of worship. That is why it is a religion, and all of them have the same objective. That is why I don't discriminate on who's right or who's wrong, but rather live by a standard moral code of right and wrong. I am more spiritual than religious.
I don't just believe in the afterlife, I know, and I know we are all connected through deep roots in the subconscious river that flows and connects ALL of us. Most of us are just not in tune with these deeper levels of consciousness because of the fog we live in. What you see now and feel around you as you read this doesn't seem like a fog, but it is, because we're not in tune with our roots on the other side.
Imagine, if you will, an island. What is an island? All it is is an underwater mountain whose peak breaks the ocean surface. Now imagine the crest of that mountain/island; that's where we are. If you go deeper down the slope of the mountain, you go underwater. What happens when you go underwater? Your reality changes; sounds are different; you can't breathe. Anything below the surface is the subconscious. You can't LIVE in that world because you don't have gills, but you can visit it for short periods of time (meditation, sleep, drugs, etc). That's what shamans do. Our spirits, however, are from there. They HAVE gills. All this is figuratively, of course. In a sense, our spirits are in a "reverse diving suit" and are visiting this realm to better themselves spiritually. But my point is, sometimes, people are so caught up in individual religions, they neglect the spirituality involved WITH their religion. They, along with atheists, have been on land too long, and think that the "above surface" world is the only plane of existence. That doesn't make them bad people. Hey, ignorance is bliss, right? I don't have anything against atheists. I'm not going to say they're going to burn in eternal damnation for not knowing. That's not for ANYONE to judge. The higher power lives within them, along with every person, plant, animal, fungi, protozoa, and within the energy signatures of non-living objects. They'll get their chance, whether it's this life or the next.
Remember the big bang? Okay, this is just my theory, but, think about it for a moment; what CAUSED the big bang? Well, the universe started with this explosion, and eons later, galaxies form, planetary systems are made, etc. I theorize that this big bang has happened SEVERAL times. It's a cycle. You have a big bang, the universe grows, and then when EVERY star turns into a black hole, they suck each other all in together, causing the great collapse, and then the impact from that collapse causes... ANOTHER big bang! Over and over. No matter what level of life forms you look at, plants die and are reborn, people die and are reborn, planets die and are reborn, the universe dies and is reborn, all the same elements in an eternal yo-yo effect; Yin and Yang eternally oscillating.
But WHY the eternal cycle? What exactly IS this universe? I believe there is no boundary to the universe... in a sense. I believe it has a border somewhere. Think of a cell in a microscope. If you zoom in enough, you'll see that it has it's own little universe in there. That cell IS a universe. Especially a brain cell. A brain cell looks like our universe. Observe the second picture. There IS no boundary between the microscopic and macroscopic. It's all parts of a whole.
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"You have been examined.
Your ship must be destroyed.
We make assumption you have a deity or deities
or some such beliefs which comfort you.
We therefore grant you
10 Earth time periods known as minutes
to make preparations."
EXTERMINATE!
There is something to be said for inventing your own belief system from scratch, I'm not sure I agree with it (and you can't make me :D), but I respect it just like I'd respect someone from another religion. I mean, it's one thing to have beliefs but it's quite another to be completely unwilling to admit that you could possibly be wrong. Some might call that unwillingness "faith" but I call it "close-minded stubborness". :P (I was going to use another word that begins with an "n" instead of stubborness but stubborn doesn't have the negative connotations of that word).
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...think about it for a moment; what CAUSED the big bang? Well, the universe started with this explosion...
Actually no, the universe didn't really "explode" into existence, it just sort of "expanded" at a relatively rapid rate into it's present state. At no point during this whole course of it's (theoretical) history did it go "bang." The term "Big Bang" actually came from scientists using it to demean and ridicule the theory (back when it was still new and not all scientists had accepted it) and it ended up sticking, ironically enough. :P
...then when EVERY star turns into a black hole, they suck each other all in together, causing the great collapse, and then the impact from that collapse causes... ANOTHER big bang!
Not necessarily, that is only one potential (and theoretical) fate for the universe, and is actually at present not one of the more likely theories, seeing the universe is presently not only expanding still, but accelerating. More likely it will either keep expanding infinitely, or eventually expand too much too quickly for space-time to handle and tears it apart, assuming our understanding of the universe is even correct. Also worth noting is that even if the universe does eventually collapse again, that doesn't necessarily mean it will ever "bang" again. It could just as easily remain collapsed and in whatever state it ends up in after that collapse.
Not to rain on your parade of course, Alieo. While I don't agree with all of what you're saying with it, I can agree with the general idea of most of what you're saying and state that I think you're on the right track.
This could also be my way of saying that one should, above all, keep an open mind always and consider ALL the possibilities. As Sherlock Holmes was well known for saying, "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth" but to do that, you also have to consider all the possibilities, of course.
EXTERMINATE!
Better keep my sonic screwdriver handy, then. :P
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Oh, yeah, of course it's theoretical. That's just my take on everything. As far as the subconscious goes, check out Carl Jung's theory of the collective unconscious. It's fascinating. I'm just tying in the spiritual end of it to what he has to say.
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Yeah, most psychologists consider Jung to be only slightly more credible than Freud.
I don't particularly like ideas that are based on what a scientist thinks should, in an ideal world, be correct, because those ideas are unscientific and generally, even if they're somewhat correct some parts of them are wrong. And psychology is full of them.
Personally I also think that a scientist developing a theory and then not bothering to test it is cowardly :cough:Maslow:cough:
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disclaimer: the following response to Alieo's post represents no bigotry or ill will towards Alieo himself, only an intellectually-oriented criticism of his proposed philosophical ideas. edit: oh look, i'm not unique after all :P
Bottom line, you have to look at what's right and what's wrong. Sure, not every religion is 100% pure and do deviate into immoral areas (extremists exist in every creed), but 100% of them ALL lead to a single deity or deities of worship.
except for hinduism, buddhism, other belief systems recognized as religions that either identify with multiple deities or make the question of deity irrelevant. edit: oh i see you actually did say "deitiES", never mind about hinduism then :P
That is why I don't discriminate on who's right or who's wrong, but rather live by a standard moral code of right and wrong. I am more spiritual than religious.
standard moral code of right and wrong..as defined by what exactly? probably just your sentiment, feelings on an issue, etc; which can't be trusted by itself because either 1) you have an intuitive sense of morality built into you buy a moral author, to whose instruction we must refer before being able to say anything is ACTUALLY in alignment therewith, or 2) nobody outside yourself forged your opinions, sentiments, feelings on an issue, except determinism, which doesn't necessarily lead to a moral conclusion, only a survival-oriented one.
I don't just believe in the afterlife, I know, and I know we are all connected through deep roots in the subconscious river that flows and connects ALL of us. Most of us are just not in tune with these deeper levels of consciousness because of the fog we live in. What you see now and feel around you as you read this doesn't seem like a fog, but it is, because we're not in tune with our roots on the other side.
Imagine, if you will, an island. What is an island? All it is is an underwater mountain whose peak breaks the ocean surface. Now imagine the crest of that mountain/island; that's where we are. If you go deeper down the slope of the mountain, you go underwater. What happens when you go underwater? Your reality changes; sounds are different; you can't breathe. Anything below the surface is the subconscious. You can't LIVE in that world because you don't have gills, but you can visit it for short periods of time (meditation, sleep, drugs, etc). That's what shamans do. Our spirits, however, are from there. They HAVE gills. All this is figuratively, of course. In a sense, our spirits are in a "reverse diving suit" and are visiting this realm to better themselves spiritually.
all of this is an invented pile of assumptions. i'm interested in the source of your 'knowledge' of these assumed premises. where did you come up with this idea? if it's a referencible source(s), then it should stand up to criticisms of validity. if it's just your intuition, nobody, not even you, can trust it because you might just be plain dead wrong.
But my point is, sometimes, people are so caught up in individual religions, they neglect the spirituality involved WITH their religion. They, along with atheists, have been on land too long, and think that the "above surface" world is the only plane of existence. That doesn't make them bad people. Hey, ignorance is bliss, right?
if by "above surface" you mean the idea that individual consciousnesses remaining mutually independent, i'd point out the fact that you have zero evidence that there really is any connection, and i guarantee any kind of evidence a person of your disposition could propose would be either pseudoscience, or purely assumed and foundless ideas repeating the same statements without sound reasons to establish them.
I don't have anything against atheists. I'm not going to say they're going to burn in eternal damnation for not knowing. That's not for ANYONE to judge. The higher power lives within them, along with every person, plant, animal, fungi, protozoa, and within the energy signatures of non-living objects. They'll get their chance, whether it's this life or the next.
Remember the big bang? Okay, this is just my theory, but, think about it for a moment; what CAUSED the big bang? Well, the universe started with this explosion, and eons later, galaxies form, planetary systems are made, etc. I theorize that this big bang has happened SEVERAL times. It's a cycle. You have a big bang, the universe grows, and then when EVERY star turns into a black hole, they suck each other all in together, causing the great collapse, and then the impact from that collapse causes... ANOTHER big bang! Over and over.No matter what level of life forms you look at, plants die and are reborn, people die and are reborn, planets die and are reborn, the universe dies and is reborn, all the same elements in an eternal yo-yo effect; Yin and Yang eternally oscillating.
1) when the universe experiences heat death and becomes a wasteland of black holes, they will not coalesce since the universe is expanding increasingly faster. even as black holes, the pieces will not suck each other back together. 2) even if they DID, we have NO model of physics that allows that final singularity to expand again. it will remain a perpetual singularity. 3) an eternal cycle implies this has happened an infinite number of times before now. but in order for any event with temporal significance to occur an infinite number of times, it takes an eternity. to say that it takes an eternity for something to happen is to say it will never happen. if there had been an infinite number of iterations before this one, it would have taken an infinite amount of time to get to this one; ie, the universe will have never reached its current iteration. we can observe that it has, thus there could not have been an infinite cycle going on. it had to start with an initial big bang. and since we know of NO model of physics to allow a collapsed universe to expand again, the most reasonable conclusion is that this universe is not a product of a former "big crunch" and that the big bang that we observe is the first, and only, to have ever occurred in this universe, be there other universes or not.
But WHY the eternal cycle? What exactly IS this universe? I believe there is no boundary to the universe... in a sense. I believe it has a border somewhere. Think of a cell in a microscope. If you zoom in enough, you'll see that it has it's own little universe in there. That cell IS a universe. Especially a brain cell. A brain cell looks like our universe. Observe the second picture. There IS no boundary between the microscopic and macroscopic. It's all parts of a whole.
slices of potatoes look like Jesus, therefore Jesus is made of potatoes and vice-versa. plus, no evidence of anything as complex as a universe, solar system, or even a star has been observed within molecules, atoms, or subatomic particles; it is a fantasy. lastly, there is no citation on either of those images so we can't tell whether that "universe" picture is not simply some artist's creative rendition, or a photoshop.
and about your other picture depicting the islands and analogy of consciousnesses, the premises of where each point lies on those pedestal-like structures is completely made up and assumptive. there is NO solid reason to believe that drugs or dreams reveal anything to us except an ontologically insignificant pyre of distorted sensory information, rather than true "insight".
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Yeah, this is all theories combined with personal beliefs. As far as moral system goes, it's simple. Just treat others how you want to be treated. I respect everyone's opinion, and I'm just putting mine out there. To clarify, what I mean by "I KNOW that an afterlife exists" means I have daily encounters with the paranormal, and have had some wicked vivid experiences in the past. Since I have personally witnessed various occurrences such as SEVERAL orbs in various locations including the house, getting tapped on my head, thumps in the back of my hearse that thump back when being thumped to (only if the thumper initiates the thumping) [LOL], AND one full blown specter of my grandma shortly after she passed on when I was a little kid. That's why I say I "know" an afterlife exists because there has to be a different dimensional plane these entities reside. It's kind of like how we can't see ultraviolet, but it's still there.
Just because I have WITNESSED something that I can't prove doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means I can't prove it! If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a noise? If you're the only one there, yes it did... in the middle of your trek through the Amazon Rainforest. But did you buddies back at home in the states hear that tree? Hell no! That doesn't mean the tree didn't make a noise when it fell. No one else was around to hear it.
=D=I=F=F=E=R=E=N=T===S=U=B=J=E=C=T=
Oh, and it didn't take long for someone to make one of these (see pic). lol
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@Canceller: Dude, take a look at evolutionary psychology before you go criticising inherent moral senses.
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@Canceller: Dude, take a look at evolutionary psychology before you go criticising inherent moral senses.
i already covered that when i said determinism will leave you with "moral" inklings. but they are not indicative of something truly being right or wrong, they would, in that case, be merely survival-oriented. the only beings that give half a damn about "murder" are people who want to live. the instinct to feel that it's "wrong" is a survival instinct, not a "moral" instinct. the idea that you deserve what you earn and that a thief "ought" not take away something of yours is NOT indicative of an actual moral reason not to steal, it's just something that you feel to be wrong as a defense mechanism to motivate you to keep things for yourself, which in the long run is beneficial to survival. these feelings are broadened to include the ideas of society and the group, since that's even more helpful towards survival. everything is about survival. but that doesn't mean things that promote human (or other) survival are "right". you may disagree, but you'd just be dead wrong. survival in itself is not some kind of ultimate objective. unless it was intended to exist by some conscious creator, then it was just a fluke, accident, happenstance, a series of matter-states that result in complex biological machines. they don't need to be there. every "moral" inkling that it's wrong to whimsically destroy these things, walking hunks of blood and meat, is not reflective of any kind of natural law of the universe. the universe doesn't give half a damn if the matter composing your body is intact or if it gets violently broken apart by someone's machete. other people might care, but they're just reacting out of an ingrown instinct to favor that which promotes existence. before you try saying that morality has any relevance to a natural universe, look into existentialism.
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No, if you had actually read about evolutionary psychology, and not the pop-culture dumbing-down of it which most evolutionary psychologists hold to be false, you would not be saying that. That's why I told you to read it.
I've taken more than one college-level course on this, and I'm even considering making it my major. I'm not pretending to be an expert but unless you can say the same or better, please don't tell me I don't understand it as much as you. It's only insulting my intelligence, and that isn't the way to win an argument :D. Well, maybe if you're a politician I might let you off the hook :P...
I'll give you a hint. Humans evolved to survive by living in groups. Living in groups is just as much an evolutionary pressure as lack of food, or predators, or disease, or any of the things you're thinking about. Evolutionary psych is a whole lot more complicated than you're making it out to be, unless you're a lizard who lives by himself and survives by eating flies, in which case, you're excused... but you'd better run away before I eat you.
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Humans evolved to survive by living in groups.
yeah, that's what i said. "morality" is the mechanism that makes that work well. here's where you need a dose of existential truth: while "morality" may be necessary for survival, survival itself isn't necessary. its importance is merely assumed. there's no natural and universal truth that it's desirable for something to survive and undesirable for something to extinguish. so murder isn't breaking any law, beyond what human societies have invented as a defense mechanism. it's just contradictory to the assumed goal: survival of the human species, which actually isn't a necessity, just a desired outcome--desired by those who wish, by instinct, to survive.
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You're still ignoring my actual point. If you actually read some actual scientific literature on evolutionary psychology you would not be saying that. Never mind reading, take some university courses on it like I did and then we can resume this debate if we still have one. If you're not willing to spend the time and money actually aquiring knowledge rather than pop-culture before you accuse me of ignorance, I don't see any reason to try and defend my point to you.
Agreed?
No I am not an expert. But after trying for four years to get a degree in evolutionary biology before finally accepting that labs were not my thing, I think I understand the concept of "survival and reproduction of the fittest" better than someone who argues that survival isn't important to evolution -- if you're even still talking about evolution.
I could paraphrase the basic concepts of evolutionary psychology straight from my textbook, but first you need to prove to me that you'd actually listen to them. Otherwise I have better things to do.
You know what, when neither of us can make an argument that the other considers valid, I think it's time to call it quits! I give up. That does not mean that you win, it means that this debate is officially postponed until each of us actually understands the other's position. When one of us starts falling into logical fallacies and the other either can't or won't connect his argument to his opponent's, all it accomplishes is making both of us look incompetent.
/flamewar
Wow. Look at how far this thread has come. I'm so proud of it! Especially without losing one iota of the sarcasm! :teary eyes:
Hang that lampshade anywhere.
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You know what, when neither of us can make an argument that the other considers valid, I think it's time to call it quits! I give up. That does not mean that you win, it means that this debate is officially postponed until each of us actually understands the other's position. When one of us starts falling into logical fallacies and the other either can't or won't connect his argument to his opponent's, all it accomplishes is making both of us look incompetent.
/flamewar
I agree. I've been there, like anyone else. With both sides are dead set on what they believe, no one will think differently.
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*NOM NOM NOM*
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I was going to make an on-topic post... But I figured I'd better not ruin the thread.
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Great plan.
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I think I understand the concept of "survival and reproduction of the fittest" better than someone who argues that survival isn't important to evolution
it's the other way around. you're missing MY actual point. you know why i accuse you of ignorance is because you are demonstrating zero understanding of existentialism and philosophy in general. and no i'm not talking about evolution. i never argued survival wasn't important to evolution. i point out the irrefutable fact that there is zero importance for any living thing to exist, it isn't important that things evolve, it's not a goal of the universe to produce life. give me one good reason why life in general OUGHT to exist. not just what makes living "better", but what in the universe demands that life ought to be. i'll give you a hint: nothing.
You know what, when neither of us can make an argument that the other considers valid, I think it's time to call it quits!
i do consider your arguments valid. you just never addressed the point of my statements which makes your valid arguments only relevant if we assume your premise that evolving, even existing, is demanded. and once again, the reason you can't understand the validity of my statements is because of your lack of philosophical education.
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I can't wait for December 22nd, 2012 to get this as I put it, idiotic hoax out of the way.
Let's face it. If your mind isn't open on new ideas, I and anyone else can fill this page up with "facts" and it won't change your mind. I don't mind conversations, and believing in both sides, but this is another classic case where people are already not wanting to talk about this because it won't change a persons mind.
Here is my thing in a nutshell. I believe that God, and God alone knows the end of the world. Jesus, the Son of God, "doesn't" know the last day. He is the Son of God, and He doesn't. What makes a single person believe that any man or woman on the face of the earth believe they know the last day? God knows EVERYTHING about us. He knows our past, present, future, how many strains of hair we have, how much fat is in our body, what friends and jobs we'll have soon, etc.
If Jesus doesn't know, we don't know.
Like I said though, even if I poured out a page of facts on this, some will still not believe in me.
So, again, this is how I see it.
If you believe and know God, what I have mentioned up there, you will know it won't end on 12.21.12.
If for any reason you do believe in the end of the world, why stock up? You stock up on so much, and then you die? That makes no sense.
If you really want to live past this, that's your choice. I don't care to. I don't believe it will end, but I don't care to stick around. Unless the Lord has other plans, I'd rather die and be with God in Heaven.
If you think Adam and Eve started off with few people, well, BIG difference.
God created a beautiful world with animals and plants, water, etc.
It's a fresh (pun intended) new world.
After this so called end of the world 2012 thing, um, yeah, it won't be fresh. It won't be pretty.
Do what you want, believe what you want. I am not here to push anyone into anything. I don't see a reason for this 2012 end of the world hoax. If you do, well, I guess you do.
And if I am wrong, I don't care. I will be with God with no worries, no pain, no suffering, no regrets. I will only be thinking of Him, and praising Him.
Thanks for your time.
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I can't wait for December 22nd, 2012 to get this as I put it, idiotic hoax out of the way.
Ditto this, for similar reasons. I won't bore y'all with the details though.
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I agree, though nothing so eloquent for me Vanguard, I don't understand why we're listening to things that may or may not be predictions, by an ancient civilization, when we are a far more advanced civilization who have found no evidence that this is even a prediction at all, much less that this civilization had some way of predicting worlds ending that we do not.
Besides, if you listened to everyone on the street the end of the world apparently happens at least three times a year.
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I can't wait for December 22nd, 2012 to get this as I put it, idiotic hoax out of the way.
Nononononononono...
The world will end on December 21st, 2012.
You see, I have this friend.
He is Irish.
He also turns 21 that day.
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But for a synchronous numbered day, wouldn't Decenber 12, 2012 be better? (12/12/12)
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But for a synchronous numbered day, wouldn't Decenber 12, 2012 be better? (12/12/12)
The Mayans were lysdexic like me!
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Supposed to coincide with the winter solstice..
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But didn't the Mayans live in a tropical area where they would not have had winter? The differences between the lengths of days aren't very big at all in tropical places either... Maybe a few seconds. But who knows, if they had the ability to make predictions that we should listen to maybe they had the instruments to measure the length of a day that accurately.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Maya_civilization_location_map-blank.svg/500px-Maya_civilization_location_map-blank.svg.png)
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Supposed to coincide with the winter solstice..
Not that really affects anything. I mean, the winter solstice comes by every year.
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The winter solstice is where they marked the end of the year. It makes sense too if you think about it.
That's the entire reason the calendar ends on that day. It was the end of their year.
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Has anybody ever thought that the guy making the calendar so many years ago got bored and stopped when he finished that year?
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I already said something along those lines. That's probably all it is.
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Given the way the long count calendar works though, that isn't very logical. The Mayan calendar doesn't have a large listing of all of the dates, or anything like that. The Mayan calendar is in theory limitless, if they were to keep on stacking more broad measurements to it, like how we have centuries, which are much more broad than decades, and the like.
If you see a statement like this, complete with a picture of the "mayan calendar", chances are that the stone circle thing is simply nothing more than the Aztec calendar stone, an entirely different beast.
(also, I don't think the mayans actually attached anything important to the completion of the 13th bak'tun, aside from the fact that it's the completion of the 13th 400 year cycle, or bak'tun)
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Then how can the mayan calendar "end"?
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There was no importance attached to it. All that happened was someone connected the wrong dots together:
- Mayans made some predictions that apparently came true - don't ask me which ones, I'm going by the logic of the believers.
- Calendar "ends"
- >implying end of days.
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I am sure if they were around today, they would simply perform a few more calculations, and extend the
life of the earth calender a few more centuries.
The calender hanging in my kitchen ends on December 31, 2012, obviously, the world will end at that point. Unless I use the back cover which has 2013 in short form. Obviously Pizza Spinners of Lee, NH, knows something we don't.
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Good way of putting it into perspective, WillyP. :D
Mayans made some predictions that apparently came true - don't ask me which ones, I'm going by the logic of the believers.
If I remember correctly, the Mayan calendar has been crazy good at predicting astronomical events with near freakish precision (considering the time period it was made) as far ahead as centuries after the Mayans themselves were dead and gone. So seeing that they got that much right, people thought that maybe there was a reason the calender ended when it did, and from that sprang up the "end of the world" theories, or that's how I see it.
Most archeologists and Mayan experts don't seem to buy into it, though, so it's, as usual, just an instance of the uneducated making a big deal out of something that likely isn't that big of a deal at all, no offense to said uneducated.
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The thing is, the Mayans were good at writing stuff down. You'd think they might want to document the end of the world somewhere, wouldn't you?
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I know the Mayans apparently wrote down what they thought would happen on the day the world ended, but they didn't associate a date with it that I know of...
It's possible that they, like Vanguard, thought the end of the world would just come when it came, and whether they knew it was coming or not wasn't their concern.
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Wait, X-mas 2011 is the last X-mas day?! :P J/K
Anyways, the world CANNOT end in 12-21-2012! Take a look back at plain ol y2k, it was fine and no destruction of the world. The Mayans are just paranoid about this year, that's right... I said that they're paranoid! This whole End of the world in 2k12 is 100% complete NONSENSE! No, offense people. If we pass 12-21-2012 and everything is fine and there's not a thing to be paranoid about. End of story
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Alfred_E._Neumann.jpg/184px-Alfred_E._Neumann.jpg)
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I need to get some more issues of MAD.
I have one. It is not enough. Not nearly. BUT STUPID IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND MAGAZINES ARE STUPID AND IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND!
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Wait, X-mas 2011 is the last X-mas day?! :P J/K
Anyways, the world CANNOT end in 12-21-2012! Take a look back at plain ol y2k, it was fine and no destruction of the world. The Mayans are just paranoid about this year, that's right... I said that they're paranoid! This whole End of the world in 2k12 is 100% complete NONSENSE! No, offense people. If we pass 12-21-2012 and everything is fine and there's not a thing to be paranoid about. End of story
I love how you left that shred of doubt: "IF we pass 12-21-2012..." Whether it ends or not, New Year's is definitely not going to be the same ever again. I've watched Dick Clark almost every New Year's I've been alive. I'm going to miss his countdowns.
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I think it's fair to say "If" we pass 12-21-2012, seeing as we have no way to know for certain when the world will end, no? It's possible it might end, but I think you'd agree that since there's no more likelihood than any other day, to worry would be foolish, right?
Am I really speaking in all questions after just one post in that thread?
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I don't know, are you?
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Is it safe to assume that this will drive you all mad and we won't even be AROUND for 12/21/12?
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I'm cool as a cucumber, and am looking forward to seeing many years.